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AIBU?

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Original poster

to stop going to church over this?

71 replies

porcamiseria · 23/04/2012 10:38

I am very upset over this, more sad than angry

we have been attending a local church since DC1 was tiny, has DC2 baptised there
Attendee numbers are low, and getting lower

Issue is, there is nowhere for my 2 "lively" DC to go

there is a small room that is used as a creche, however noone uses it any more (they go to sunday school)- so end up sitting there on my own. fxxk that. I am not going to church to be sat in a small room on my own with my DS, I may as well go to park

if we stay in church, they are disruptive, so thats a NO GO

there IS sunday school, and alot of the younger kids go (ie same age). But mine are not welcome as they are a bit disruptive. That said, so are some of the others and they get a welcome. but for months now we go in, as other of same age are there, get a stony glare, or no welcome at all

so I am going less and less, and dread going

Yesterday it came to a head, went in, ignored. ask for crayons, ignored. then they did a running game that nearly knocked over my baby, and my friends baby. when I asked the bigger ones to watch out for the small ones got told "why are you not using creche" ie booted out !

what really upsets me is that the sunday school teachers little DS used to be just as lively as mine! so why is he tolerated, and mine not?

so I left, had a cry in creche, went home

life is too short to spend 25% of my time in a church where it appears me (of my kids?) are not welcome

fucking gutted though , its not something I take lightly

OP posts:
TheCunningStunt · 23/04/2012 10:42

Can you move church?

Original poster
porcamiseria · 23/04/2012 10:43

yes, I can. there is a place where my family go. 20 mins drive away

just feel bad "dumping" a church, feels so wrong !

OP posts:
Helltotheno · 23/04/2012 10:44

What do you mean 'lively'? That word doesn't explain things to me as most kids I know are lively. Let's face it, a 'running game' isn't appropriate in church and surely you can see how that would piss people off?

OTOH there's no reason they shouldn't be welcome to Sunday school but someone else shouldn't be required to use all the time they have disciplining your children so why don't you offer to go with them and make sure they toe the line a bit?

In general, maybe you need to do something about their behaviour?

spanky2 · 23/04/2012 10:46

Wow, I'm not sure what to say to that. It seems to me that you should find a church that is less cliquey. I can't believe how rude they are. My dss are lively too, so I do understand. I don't go to church as I am not a christian, but my understanding is that it should be a place where you are welcome, you can praise God and it is a second family. Do not go back, I am sure you will be able to find a church where they parishoners behave in a more Christian way. If you don't want to do that, talk to your vicar about what has happened and how you feel, and see what s/he suggests.

WorraLiberty · 23/04/2012 10:46

How old are the kids?

FirstLastEverything · 23/04/2012 10:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
porcamiseria · 23/04/2012 10:49

hell
the running game was with older children, NOT mine!

DC1 is older, and yes he does need to tone it down. I know. but they ignore him, if they said "sit down, join us, do this" he would. But they ignore him, he feels intimated and acts up. he is fine at pre-school, ie do issues w discipline

and I do stay there, but fucking tired of it as so unfriendly

OP posts:
Original poster
porcamiseria · 23/04/2012 10:51

1.5 and 4

like i said 4 year old DOES need to behave better (this is issue I think) and 1.5 year old is just a quiet toddler

but sunday schools little DS was just like mine when he was younger!

OP posts:
BackforGood · 23/04/2012 10:53

Well, I can see that it makes sense for babies to be in the creche and older children to be doing more age appropriate things in their own room.
HAve you tried asking people if there might be anyone willing to join a rota to run a creche? When mine were little we did this and got over a dozen volunteers willing to take a turn (in twos). People without young children themselves who jut remembered what it was like. They even told us we shouldn't be on the rota as we could probably do with an hour's peace and quiet and they wanted to much my lovely babies no doubt.
If you can't get anything going, then, explain that you need to move to a church where there are facilities for babies. Then at least they know.

cwtch4967 · 23/04/2012 10:54

Change church!!! Don'y feel bad about dumping them, they have not made you welcome.
Find a church that welcomes you all.
Sadly there are some very cold churches out there - no surprise that numbers are in decline!!!
I say this as a regualar church goer and a parent of a child with special needs, my church is fab and have gone out of their way to accommodate my ds.

bigjoeent · 23/04/2012 10:55

Go somewhere else, I'm not religious but they don't strike me as being very Christian. I do take the kids to a playgroup in a church and we are all made to feel very welcome. I have a boisterous boy as well, they had no problems with him (I was obviously there but I had baby twins so couldn't always watch him.) They just included him and other children.

I think ignoring a small boy in a sunday school is not very inclusive, its obvious to most parents that getting children involved often improves their behaviour.

GrimmaTheNome · 23/04/2012 10:56

just feel bad "dumping" a church, feels so wrong !
Go somewhere else where your family is made welcome, and don't feel bad about it. There's simply something wrong with a church which can't welcome all children, isn't there?

TheArmadillo · 23/04/2012 10:56

Life's too short - go to a truly christian church where you will be welcomed regardless of whether your children can be a bit lively or not.

I went to a pretty bad church as a child. It wasn't till I went to my ILs one as an adult that I realised how welcoming, accepting and friendly a good church is.

I am no longer a christian but still occasionally go as it is a lovely experience there.

DeWe · 23/04/2012 11:01

I think it's impossible to judge without seeing your kids behaviour.

What most churches do that I know is have ages that they go to the diffeerent groups. If ds is at the right age then walk in, say "here's ds. He's coming to your group now" then go. Ime children behave worse when parents are there.

Then decided with your friend with the baby that you will take it in turns to watch the babies in the creche room. Don't take them in with the older ones.

I wonder whether you and your friend are sitting at the back of the children's goupe chatting, which would account for the glares. Having done it; it is much harder to keep children's attention if there's a couple of adults with babies chatting in the back ground.

I read that the running game was the other children, but I don't think they shouldn't be able to play a running game because you have brought younger ones in.

Alternatively go to the vicar/vicar's wife/children's group leader and say that there is no point you attending to sit in a room with your children. Point out that any other parent arriving to look at the church with a young baby will be very put off by this. Ask them what they're planning on doing about it.

Finally don't feel guilty about moving church. We did over similar issues. We gave them several suggestions with support from the children's group leaders. Offered to put in a lot of time and effort, but someone at the top refused to consider anything except what he wanted. So we moved church eventually after seeing nothing would be done.

Person who caused it thought we should come and be prayed for when we moved on as he thought this was the biblical way to do it. I pointed out that the biblical way was probably coming and shaking the dust off my feet... Grin we didn't though.

YellowWellies · 23/04/2012 11:02

Hmmm they all sound very Christian! ... I'd leave them to it to be honest, no point staying where you are unwelcome and you can't force people to appreciate your kids.

Maybe the situation is also a hint to work on some discipline with your eldest? You say that if the others just asked him to join them he'd be fine. But really the world isn't going to change to suit your kids' personalities - you need to help them to be more flexible too or else you are going to go from place to place with your kid feeling like a black sheep and struggling to make friends. How sad a childhood would that be? :( Your 4 year old isn't going to behave better on his own - he needs your help and maybe you need to tell him that it's difficult to make friends if he acts up all of the time. If you just blame the other kids then he is never going to modify his behaviour and be more sociable.

MaryBS · 23/04/2012 11:02

Personally I'd speak to the vicar/minister - how are things to improve if people just leave? Not that I'm getting at you, because I'm not, but its very upsetting for me as a minister if people just leave without me knowing why and being given chance to fix it (and I'm not the vicar, just a lay worker). They should do better for all concerned. I've had a few battles/fallings out over my DS (who is now 10 but has Aspergers), but in the end we've always been able to straighten it out, even when it seems hopeless.

QuintessentialShadows · 23/04/2012 11:03

Are you the only one with disruptive kids that you are unable to control?

I cant see you moving Church will help, I doubt your 4 year old will see the light and start behaving better just because you are in a new Church.

I see plenty of children in our Church colouring in, or looking at books, quietly during mass, so I think it is your childs behaviour you need to tackle first.

There is a Sunday school, and a creche, so plenty of options, really. I would imagine your younger one is too young for sunday school? What happens if you leave your 4 YO? Most children her age got to Sunday school on their own at our Church.

OhdearNigel · 23/04/2012 11:08

We also do a creche on a rota system at our church - I do one week a month. The older ladies love playing with the toddlers and I get to hear 3 sermons out of 4 ! We go out in the 2nd hymn and come out at the Peace - we go into the vestry as we have no other space (we literally have no facilities in our church apart from electricity and running water !)

Original poster
porcamiseria · 23/04/2012 11:08

Thanks all

rest assured I am not someone that says "OH DS is a little angel", he does disbehave at church, and until I have a solution, I am not attending again. he is fine at school, fine when playing out, was fine at playgroup, for some reason church brings out the devil in him Grin

BUT, I do think they have been fucking awfully unkind, and I cant forgive that

when I have calmed down I will let priest know why we have moved on

OP posts:
worldgonecrazy · 23/04/2012 11:13

Change church. I don't think this is about your kids, it's about uncharitable ignorant people. Even if this is about you needing more support around discipline - why haven't any of them offered to help you?

One thing I have noticed, when I visit churches that have areas set aside for children, is they the areas can be very passive, with activities that quieter children tend to prefer, and nothing for more energetic children, especially boys.

blackeyedsusan · 23/04/2012 11:18

change church. you do not owe them anything. they are not making you part of their family, "one anothering" as it is sometimes put in church speak Confused they have not remembered that Jesus welcomed the little children and told the disciples off for pushing them away. childen need to behave reasonably well but it is unealistic to expect a fourr yea old to have much more than four minutes worth of concentration... some people get lucky with childen who can sit and read/drawquietly, dd for example.... then there is ds....

I am changing church for similar reasons. there is no creche rota. they did a session on excluding people from the life of the church at the church weekend, which I took the children to as the childrens group were being taken swimming...( not appropriatefor a 2 year old who is scared of the water/rules of the pool require one adult per child ) I was greeted with "is there not a creche for the children?" the sitting in the creche by myself was raised and nothing was implemented despite the correct noises being made.

I am hoping to find a church that is more welcoming to ds, who is a little challenging at the best of times. dd is a dream and well behaved.

thejaffacakesareonme · 23/04/2012 11:21

Are there different groups for different age groups? I think it can be hard for the kids aged 4/5/6 if there aren't separate groups and if the activities are aimed mostly at older children eg there are workbooks with lots of reading which the younger kids can't cope with. Our church gets round this by buddying up the younger kids with older ones and they work through worksheets etc together with the older kids doing any reading required. It seems to work quite well and builds up relationships between kids of different ages. It may be worth suggesting if your older DC is acting up because he doesn't really understand what is going on.

Another thing that may work is if you leave DC1 with the Sunday School and you do something different with DC2, either look after him in the creche, church or go for a walk. I've found both my DSs are more likely to act up in church or Sunday School if they are fighting over my attention.

Ephiny · 23/04/2012 11:27

Not meaning to be rude but I am struggling a bit to see why you go to church, if it's a given that you cannot 'stay in the church' anyway, and seem to see it primarily as a place for children's entertainment. If you're not going to be present for the Mass/service anyway, would you be better off just going to a playgroup or soft play or something, and say a prayer at home when you get a quiet moment?

I guess I'm just asking about your reasons for going to church, what do you think church is for etc? Are you Catholic (i.e. it would be a serious sin to not attend on Sunday? But you're not really 'attending' anyway if you're not in the church).

It's a real shame people have been unkind or unfriendly to you though, you would think with declining attendance they would be a bit more tolerant and welcoming!

emdelafield · 23/04/2012 11:28

Sorry to hear this has upset you OP. In my experiences churches are like cafes- some are more child friendly than others.
I would move but "shop around"first .

I think numbers might be the issue here. in my experience the more children who attend the better the church is at caring for their needs.

My DS1 would sit quietly through the longest services( he found the music soothing). DS2 was too lively and noisy and we didn't feel it was fair on the (elderly) congregation to take him into church with us. Nothing to do with good/bad behaviour or parenting just different personalities !
I hope you find a welcoming church soon.

NarkedPuffin · 23/04/2012 11:30

What unpleasant people. I hope you find a welcoming place to go with your children.