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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to stop going to church over this?

71 replies

porcamiseria · 23/04/2012 10:38

I am very upset over this, more sad than angry

we have been attending a local church since DC1 was tiny, has DC2 baptised there
Attendee numbers are low, and getting lower

Issue is, there is nowhere for my 2 "lively" DC to go

there is a small room that is used as a creche, however noone uses it any more (they go to sunday school)- so end up sitting there on my own. fxxk that. I am not going to church to be sat in a small room on my own with my DS, I may as well go to park

if we stay in church, they are disruptive, so thats a NO GO

there IS sunday school, and alot of the younger kids go (ie same age). But mine are not welcome as they are a bit disruptive. That said, so are some of the others and they get a welcome. but for months now we go in, as other of same age are there, get a stony glare, or no welcome at all

so I am going less and less, and dread going

Yesterday it came to a head, went in, ignored. ask for crayons, ignored. then they did a running game that nearly knocked over my baby, and my friends baby. when I asked the bigger ones to watch out for the small ones got told "why are you not using creche" ie booted out !

what really upsets me is that the sunday school teachers little DS used to be just as lively as mine! so why is he tolerated, and mine not?

so I left, had a cry in creche, went home

life is too short to spend 25% of my time in a church where it appears me (of my kids?) are not welcome

fucking gutted though , its not something I take lightly

OP posts:
hiddenhome · 23/04/2012 11:34

I had to leave my church because I was made to feel unwelcome with ds1 when he was a toddler. He was a bit lively and too young for their Sunday school. I left in tears one day because the usher threw me out glared at me until I left.

I go to the Catholic church now and they don't bat an eyelid if any of the babies/toddlers make a noise. I find the CofE too stuck up Hmm

You should look around for a different church. It does get better as they get older if that's any consolation.

DandyDan · 23/04/2012 11:34

Talk to the Sunday-school leaders; explain that you want one of your children to be in the group and are finding it very hard to manage otherwise with the baby. Try to arrange a rota for the creche so you have some time to be in church without your children.

Basically, discuss it first with them - show that you value the provision they do offer and that you really want to be able to use it, even if it might mean you staying in the Sunday-school group for a couple of weeks along with your younger child, until the 4 yr old gets the hang of how to be in that group. Aged 4, he might well be at school and would need to learn to adjust his behaviour a little anyway for school, and Sunday-school for that age isn't usually about sitting quietly and drawing things.

If things don't improve or you still feel uncomfortable, explain your difficulty to the vicar.

Original poster
porcamiseria · 23/04/2012 11:34

epiphny

good question! I have asked myself this ALOT

I attend as family are c of e, and I do have an emotional attachment.

I have also thought "fxxk as I spend all my time in a room, people maybe think I am treating this like a social club", so its a good question.

OP posts:
Hebiegebies · 23/04/2012 11:43

Please talk to your vicar, she or he may not be able to change the system, but they need to know what is going on. If you get stuck for words, show them this thread as you are very honest about your own child and the problems you face.

Then if nothing can change, do as others have said, find a church that is suitable for you now. Cafe church, Messy church, one with a good kids club, anything that is welcoming.

You may choose to return to your local church at a later date, or you may be happy where you end up

Don't give up on God because his people seem to have given up on you, there is something better out there.

Ephiny · 23/04/2012 11:44

Thanks for not taking offence at my question OP :) I was worried it sounded like I was having a go, or saying you shouldn't go to church - I didn't mean it like that though, just thinking that maybe if you explore your reasons for going, it might help with (a) whether you want to keep going to church at all and (b) what kind of church would suit you best.

I agree maybe have a chat with the Sunday school leader or vicar, if they're unhelpful though you're probably better off looking elsewhere.

hiddenhome · 23/04/2012 11:45

At the CofE church we were expected to take our toddlers into the choir vestry at the back of church. We were given a few crap toys and the service was relayed via a speaker in the corner. It was cold, dusty, lonely and unpleasant Sad

The place was full of hatchet faced old women and their miserable husbands. They all thought they were great and people like me (single mother, lively toddler) shouldn't have been there Sad

Don't give up going to church, find somewhere else. Not all places are unwelcoming. I do find the CofE very stuck up and intolerant. It's more like a Darby & Joan club imo Hmm

MaryBS · 23/04/2012 11:51

We're not ALL stuck up and intolerant in the C of E Shock, thats a bit of a generalisation!

hiddenhome · 23/04/2012 11:53

Maybe not, but they have been at the CofE churches I've been to Sad I'm sure you're very nice, but not all places or people are.

Ephiny · 23/04/2012 11:53

Maybe Catholic churches are more family-friendly as a rule! I haven't been a regular churchgoer for quite a few years, but I do remember it was completely normal for babies and children of all ages to be in the congregation like everyone else, only being taken out if they were really screaming or needed to be changed or something. There was no question of them having to sit in a separate room or be put in a creche during Mass!

fossil97 · 23/04/2012 11:55

I have lively boys and they were hard work at church at that age. I am also a children's leader. Em is right, the more children there are, the more you can have proper age groups going and likely to have a bigger pool of helpers.

Our children's work is straining at the seams, in fact it's a real headache trying to keep both a 1-4's and an over-5's group going, but we are committed to it because it does release parents to be part of the service. The consequence is that nearly every possible parent or adult has been drafted onto the rota. It is very hard to have babies and toddlers together with older children.

I hope you find somewhere that suits you better if you can't resolve the issues (even temporarily). It is baffling to me that your DS can't join in activities with other children the same age though, that's not on.

fossil97 · 23/04/2012 11:59

I would add that due to people unvolunteering from our rota, we are going to have to put all ages back together again for a while and I have no idea how we will manage short of constructing a barricade in the middle of the room!

soverylucky · 23/04/2012 12:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Meggymoodle · 23/04/2012 12:01

We're C of E and have a creche (on a rota that none of the mums of little ones do - other ladies in the church and a couple of the teenagers run it), we then have a toddler group from 3-5 called Mini Explorers where DS goes and then different groups onwards and upwards until 18.

I think that most churches think that they are being welcoming and would probably be very surprised to learn otherwise so I think that it would be well worth speaking to someone on the leadership team - a church warden or a vicar or someone - and saying that you'd really like to stay but that you're finding it difficult at the moment due to your reasons. You might want to tone down your language a bit when you explain it in church though Grin

madhairday · 23/04/2012 12:10

Hidden you have a problem with the CofE church but we are not all like that at all, the vast majority of c of e churches I know are friendly and welcoming. There are the odd few as you say but this is the case for any denomination and in fact any club/society, as it's people. But please stop generalising!

OP I really would talk to the vicar and children's leader, they need to know about this, it's wrong and shouldn't be happening. But I also wouldn't have any guilt about looking for a more welcoming church - there are plenty out there with great kids work where lively children thrive and love it. Sorry to hear you've had such a bad experience at this place - makes me so angry when i hear these things. :( Hope you can find the best solution for you - but like someone else said, don't give up on God because some of his representatives are so crap Grin

bowerbird · 23/04/2012 12:14

Porca I feel for you. It's awful when you come away from church feeling rubbish, and angry, when you should be feeling more positively.

However I have to agree with other posters that you might want to consider working on your older child's behaviour. OP I'm not being judgy here, but there is no reason that a child (even a lively one) of almost five cannot behave well, sit respectfully and quietly for the duration of a service. Teaching our children a little self-restraint is no bad thing.

I think also that it's not just a question of "does this church fit with your children?", but "does this church fit well with YOU?". Do you feel a sense of spiritual home? Do you feel a sense of fellowship with the congregation? It doesn't sound like it. This is clearly important to you and I feel it's worth exploring other churches - don't feel guilty about it. Personally, I looked for over a year, going to different churches every week until I found the one that is now "home" to me.

Do some research, look at church websites and make some calls, asking questions. Many CofE churches have separate "family services" which positively welcome children and single mums. It's worth the search. Best of luck to you.

halcyondays · 23/04/2012 12:21

Change church. If your ds is fine at school and elsewhere, then his behaviour at church probably isn't that bad. I would try to find another church that is a bit more welcoming.

iguanadonna · 23/04/2012 12:27

So let's imagine your DS1 was a real horror with serious emotional and behavioural issues. And you were a crap mother who didn't react when he bullied other children.

Yep, there still ought to be a welcoming place for him in the church family, and a supportive community to help you.

Shushshessleeping · 23/04/2012 12:27

Come to our church! We've got a huge kids club on Sunday mornings and they are encouraged to be as loud and spirited as possible! The crèche is run by rota and have proper staff on, all crb checked!

There are good family churches out there. If churches don't look after the future generations, they will die out, such a shame people don't realise this. Hope you find a nicer church.

manicinsomniac · 23/04/2012 12:27

I would either
a) change church
or
b) talk to the church about your feelings and see if there is any way things can change. If not then option a

I go to a church where there are nearly as many children as adults and the average age of the fialry large adult congregation is about 30. Therefore there are children with a variety of needs ranging from the naturally exuberant to downs syndrome and fairly severe autism. ALL are made to feel welcome and are catered for in the Sunday school and no parent is required to stay, though they can if they want to.

You deserve to feel welcome and comfortable in a church.

Original poster
porcamiseria · 23/04/2012 12:48

I would like to thank everyone for responding so kindly, it really means alot to me Thanks

I am just so upset about this, dumping a church does not sit well with me

I will also miss some of the kinder folk, and their kids

and I am keenly aware that DS 1 does need to behave better in church

But overall, they have upset me, and hurt me. Its been brewing for ages and I never want to enagege with the 2 women again, at least not how I am feeling right now

so, onwards and upwards. and when I have calmed down I will make contact with vicar to explain why

DS1 is a good boy, I know I might be biased but given we have no behavoural issues elsewhere I am not going to attend a church that does not try and make any effort to engage with him

and meggy, it will be a kind and expletive free message I promise you Grin

and I aint giving up on god, no way

OP posts:
WibblyBibble · 23/04/2012 13:51

Aw this is really horrible for you, I'm sorry you've met such idiots at that church. They should not be acting like that, however 'disruptive' your 4yo is- and really it doesn't sound like he's that bad if he's similar to other children there. I sometimes think small churches can be a bit funny like that but then when we moved here, I felt intimidated about going to church because it seemed to be fairly skewed towards elderly people, but actually there is a group of about 5 kids who come regularly and even though some of them are a bit hyper (inc my youngest who likes to occasionally shout 'baby jesus' during songs at random points- I guess at least she has some idea what they are about but it is not really appropriate), the sunday school/creche teacher comes up with things for all of them. There's even more of a range of ages there too, from young teenagers to toddlers- the older ones tend to help out a bit or do word puzzles, and they have toys out etc and do craft activities. Last week they had a hunt for bags of toys that were being donated to the kids hospice but had hidden in the church. There is NO WAY we would ignore a little boy who came in to join, that is just not normal for any group let alone a church! In fact we have had ones where I've not even been sure who their mum/dad/gran was because they seemed to be getting attention from half the congergation. My friend has lively boys and her church caters very well to them too, but that is a much larger one. I think if you just find somewhere more friendly and less, er, insane then you should feel welcomed. Seems like the people at your current one have some serious issues...

entropygirl · 23/04/2012 15:20

OP YABU, not on this issue as such but in general.

Debsbear · 23/04/2012 15:23

Ywould BU to stop going to ANY church because of this, but I would definitely find another one. If you are more comfortable with explaining why you are doing so then go for it, rather than just disappearing.

Original poster
porcamiseria · 23/04/2012 15:28

entophy, eh? pls clarify!

OP posts:
entropygirl · 23/04/2012 15:38

oh sorry, I thought given the number of drive-by-YABU's you dole out, you would be happy to be on the receiving end for a change.....

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