To not give a fuck about schools?

[sensuallettuce]

AIBU to be totally hacked off with this subject every bloody year.

I don't care that Saffron didn't get into your first choice school even though the local school is varie good she just isn't "suited" to that "environment" all the council estate kids .

It's such thinly veiled snobbery and competitive parenting at its very worst. Kids should go to the local school end of and if there is a grammar system state educated kids should be permitted to take the entrance exam (not privately educated kids who are trained to pass an exam) and this should be means tested.

I live in one of the most competitive school areas of the country with a massive social divide (Poole in Dorset). Because of this I ended up with all 3 kids at 3 different schools for 3 yrs .

How can people bang on about the state providing a perfectly good education then spend an extra £50,000 on a house in the "right" area. It's hypocritical snobby bollocks.

Kids will learn if they want to. I do not believe any of them have faired any better or worse due to my non choice of school. They are fulfilling who they are.

They have a loving home and are well balanced grounded kids and they know if I believe they have been "wronged" I am behind them 100%, if they have done "wrong" I am behind the school. I a, supportive of and interested in their education.

We all need to bloody calm down about this seriously

Massive misconception that it is just socially disadvantaged kids who are disruptive - having money does not make you a great parent.

Grammar schools are still unfair and segregating, even if you take the private intake out. The fact is most of the kids who do not have parental support, or English as a first language or other forms of deprivation will probably not get there. Replacing private with grammar schools will still end up with a two tier system. Personally, I want all children to mix together, academic, non academic, middle class and non working class. Other countries do manage this.

MN gives grammar education a bad name.

Plenty of heavily tutored kids and private school kids attempt to get into our local grammar but don't pass the test. The vast majority who do pass the test don't receive tutoring and come from ordinary state primaries. Plenty of the local private schools are a waste of money anyhow as far as quality of education goes.

The test our school uses must be pretty discriminating as it seems to prove that money can't buy a way in.

Sorry typing on this thing isn't easy! Obviously I meant working class- not non working class!

Plenty of very successful countries such as Germany thrive on a multi-tier system ra.

Germany is ability tested actually which I think is fairer for everyone - then they can all go at a pace that suit them.

Didn't realise until recently that you don't have to be a qualified teacher to reach at most private schools

Teach doh!

My DS got into the nearest school. It has outstanding ofsted and is a lovely school. We are very lucky as we didn't really look into these things before buying our but got a place anyway. It is also in a mixed area. So what.

A lot of it is parent support. I went to a comprehensive secondary school which wasn't great and I did well as I was motivated and had lots of encouragement from home. I did leave for A levels.

Anyway there is very little parental choice. Ask my friends they will tell you that.

There seems to also be an assumption on MN that rich kids are thick. And that rich kids can be discriminated against within the education system because their parents can 'afford to pay'. Those parents have every right to exercise a choice - perhaps the parents prefer the social mix at state schools or perhaps they are simply more academic than the local private options and therefore suit the child best.

Sensual I live in an area which is one of the most deprived in the country I also see, visit and know other well off areas - I have eyes and can see that the typical behaviour is very different, guess how?

I don't want to see this but I would have to be blind not to. I come from a poor family and live among poor families so I am not looking out of my comfy bubble world and reading the telegraph too much. It is just how it is.

Yes a parent with money can still be crap and have a horror brat for a child, but if you want to believe that all the statistics and the evidence of your own eyes is wrong then I think you are not being realistic.
Equally, of course you can be poor and have lovely children. But broadly speaking, odds are if a child is from a deprived area it is more likely to exhibit poor behaviour (for a whole host of reasons - not all the parents fault) :(

It's not fair for the kids who didn't have the support to get to the grammar school. It just isnt. At least with streaming in schools there can be fluidity, kids can move around as they develop. When grammar schools were more common, plenty of kids felt they had failed and were written off at age 11 because they didn't get in.
My ds is very academic, his head teacher at primary assumed he would go to an academic selective school. He doesn't, he goes to the local school, which has a high proportion of kids with special needs, free school meals and English as a second language. Funnily enough he is still academic.

Oh ffs you have to be qualified and then some to get a job at private school, they have quite a lot if applicants to teach at school where if the child assaults you they get kicked out rather than the other way around, funnily enough

Heswall it depends what you mean by qualified.

When I trained to be a teacher a percentage of us went private(not me)actually the ones less confident in behaviour management, we all obviously did the same training.

There aren't the same regulations in the private sector,they even get a huge amount of warning re inspections(which I think they're going to tighten up on given the dire standards in some private schools).

My dsis had a bfriend who taught in one of the top boarding schools in the country.His only qualification was an Oxbridge first(no teaching qualifications),I wouldn't let him in within 2 feet of my dc.

There are many poor private schools however there are many good which due to class size and resources give kids an unfair and non realistic advantage with the 11+.I don't think privately educated kids should be allowed to take state grammar places.If parents care so much about state education send your kids to a state primary.

Heswall - I said you don't have to be a qualified teacher I didn't say you don't have to have any qualifications.

Well considering we had a Spanish teacher at our state who it transpired half way into the exchanges only qualification was to be able to speak Spanish I'm happy enough to look down the list of teachers with their qualifications listed next to their names and take the word of the selection panel made up of the head, governors and founders that they wish to maintain the schools standards by employing the best available candidates.

Not all private schools pay as much as the state,not all teachers like having their prime focus to be keeping parents happy(which is why a couple of my friends bailed out of the private sector).All private schools don't get the best teaching candidates,far from it.

The standards in our local leafy mansion private school aren't half as good as the local primary which is why many are pulling their kids out.My friend was horrified when she saw what my dc were doing at the local state school in comparison. This particular school has no incentive to provide good standards at primary as they stay on until 18 and they don't like loosing kids to the grammar.T here are other state primaries though in our area that do teach to the 11+.

It wouldn't be a perfect solution but I do think banning privately educated kids would go some way to making things fairer.For a start you'd have more of a balance in the state sector and actually it would make a point that these schools were never designed for privately educated kids in the first place.It would free up several places for the less well off too.

Also nobody has to send their kids to a private primary,if you don't want to be excluded from the grammar sector support your local state run school.

You'd just get an influx of students into year 6 before the deadline for applications from "elsewhere"
It's the age old argument if private schools don't have the best teachers, facilities etc then what are you afraid of ? State schooled children should be able to wipe the floor with them.

They are coached to pass the exam that's why they get in.

Exactly many are coached as schools aren't beholden to the same restrictions and curriculum as those schools in the public sector.Many private schools sell themselves on the amount of kids that they get into the grammar(one of our local schools certainly does).It's so,so unfair.Parents are buying a golden ticket.

Not all parents that pay for private are savvy(or need to be if loaded) but many are and they choose the schools that will rid them of school fees from Year 7.

Just my experience but most parents who pay for private primary do not want the state system at 4 yrs or 11 years so they've no interest in the 11+
The children that pass the 11+ from private are coached outside school it's not in the schools interests for them to pass as that's the end of the income stream for the school.Y.
So actually the children that are coached are at an advantage, maybe although that is up for debate, coaching can turn them right off it too.
My experience of grammars is that your child has to keep up with the very bright children or else they can leave. There's little in the way of support and if you aren't a hard worker from day one you'll be left for dust. If you honestly think a parent that cares so much for their child's education that they have invested £40k in primary at least would then sail their child down that path of self destruction you're frankly bonkers.

Ermmmm they most certainly do exist.They may not in your area but plenty of other areas will have parents that mad. To quote the website of one such prep school in our local area-

"The school has a long record of successfully preparing pupils for the 11+ Entrance Examinations to the excellent local grammar schools."

Fair-I don't think so.

The utter madness of it is as you say valuable places are wasted which could have gone to those more naturally suited.

I don't understand why mixed education seems to be held up as the ideal situation that would solve all society's problems.

People that advocate there being no grammar schools and all primaries and comps having a very diverse and mixed intake - who does that actually benefit? Does it benefit all the children, or does it just benefit those who are socially and economically disadvantaged?

Because I don't see how it would benefit all the children, I think the only ones who would really benefit are those who are socially and economically disadvantaged, and that is unfair. All children are worthy of educational benefits, not just those who come from poor backgrounds.

Exactly I'm sure all governments would prefer the masses to be educated to the same diabolical level.