To not give a fuck about schools?

[sensuallettuce]

AIBU to be totally hacked off with this subject every bloody year.

I don't care that Saffron didn't get into your first choice school even though the local school is varie good she just isn't "suited" to that "environment" all the council estate kids .

It's such thinly veiled snobbery and competitive parenting at its very worst. Kids should go to the local school end of and if there is a grammar system state educated kids should be permitted to take the entrance exam (not privately educated kids who are trained to pass an exam) and this should be means tested.

I live in one of the most competitive school areas of the country with a massive social divide (Poole in Dorset). Because of this I ended up with all 3 kids at 3 different schools for 3 yrs .

How can people bang on about the state providing a perfectly good education then spend an extra £50,000 on a house in the "right" area. It's hypocritical snobby bollocks.

Kids will learn if they want to. I do not believe any of them have faired any better or worse due to my non choice of school. They are fulfilling who they are.

They have a loving home and are well balanced grounded kids and they know if I believe they have been "wronged" I am behind them 100%, if they have done "wrong" I am behind the school. I a, supportive of and interested in their education.

We all need to bloody calm down about this seriously

'The grammar option is open to everyone - moving or being religious is not.'

No it's not. I live in west Sussex, I'd have to move to Kent for grammar schools. I agreed with you at first but your argument is now jumbled and incoherent.

Grammar isn't an option for everyone, you are kidding yourself. It's not an option for parents who lack the intelligence to prepare their children for teh 11+ themselves, it's not an option for poor parents who would have to pay for transport to the school instead of letting them walk to the comp, it's not an option for parents who can't afford the extras (uniform etc) that they seem to need at grammar compared to the comp. And it's not an option for children who simply aren't bright enough but still deserve to receive a high quality education.

The Grammar school option is not available in all areas
< thinks about spending extra 50k+ on new house to move to Grammar school area >

< or maybe an area with better schools? >

Not sure about means testing but I think children from private schools should be banned from sitting the exam for grammar schools.

Grammar schools are for state educated children.

Children with unfair advantages such as a private education in a school with small classes that often teach to the exam should not be competing with kids taught in huge classes and absolutely no preparation.

It's completely unfair and serves no purpose other than to give wealthy families a private education free. It also clutters up grammar schools with kids that shouldn't be there ie are not naturally bright but have been hot housed because their parents could afford it.

If all state educated kids had the equivalent of a private primary education and months of 11+ tutoring grammar schools would be heaving and full of average ability kids.I don't want my taxes to fund free private equivalent education for the rich.

I think in an ideal world schools should identify children in year 5 as likely grammar candidates and there should be a means tested fund for tutoring ie if you earn under a certain amount you get help. This way many parents not aware their kids were grammar material would get the knowledge and funding needed.

Obviously if others wanted to shoe horn their unsuitable kids in regardless then they shouldn't be stopped but other poorer families with children more suited should be given the materials/knowledge/help needed for an education that was designed for their children.

Sorry - I meant its an option for everyone in this area.

I didn't "prepare" my son for the grammar test either.

And there is a free bus to the grammar school.

@Mrs I left Hackney schools in 2003

Plus I agree with many here. I have received grief for going ot the best schoolsin the area, though on a national level they were still crap.

But no-one corners the parents of disruptive unaprisational children and accuses them of social engineering. But they are as guilty of it imo.

Totally agree Mrsheffley - I think Bournmouth Grammar prioritises state educated kids.

In our area the grammar bus is ££££££££.Again poorer families should have it funded as I know people who haven't applied on the bus cost alone.

mrsHeffly
Child A : father earns 30K mother earns 20k
Child B : father earns 30K mother Earns 20k
Child A's parents spend 1k Each month to send A to prep school with the hope of A gaining a place at a Grammar school.
Child B's parents send B to a state primary.
Why the heck should child A be excluded from the Grammar school system?!!

I totally agree with you.What a sensible and down to earth approach you have to schooling

MrsH, you are wrong that GS serves no purpose other than to give wealthy families a private education for free.

Like I as ready said, my ds is at a GS in a non grammar area, and there is no way in the world we could afford private education. Same goes for many of the children in his year group. There are some from private school, and some that where heavily private tutored, but they are all at that school because they are clever enough to be there. Competition for places is just too high for them to admit children that aren't intelligent and have just been taught to test.

You say you don't want your taxes to pay for free private equivalent education for the rich. Fair enough. But don't you think some of the wealthier parents at GS also pay their taxes so are just as entitled to state education as anyone else?

I agree that in some areas it may be neccesary to do something to level the playing field between over tutored private school children and children whose parents can't provide extra help, but means testing is not the way to go. We wouldn't qualify, being just over the limit for any TCs, bt nor can we afford private tutors either. You would once again end up with the sqeezed middle missing out. I think private schools that are putting children forward for the 11+ should have to offer tutoring for local children whose primary schools think they are GS material.

I agree with ethelb. It's the parents of the disruptive children that should be blamed for some schools lack of succcess, not the parents of the children that don't even go there.

It's very expensive to get to the grammar in this area too, especially as for most people it is the only grammar school available for a thirty mile radius of where they live.

Having said all that funding the poor will effect the squeezed middle(by middle I mean those in that band just over benefits and under the comfortably off)as said squeezed middle can't afford tutoring,buses either.

The comfortably well off/rich obviously will always have the private sector to fall back on.

The whole school thing needs a shake up imvho.I was a child that went to a variety of schools and by personal experience I have to say going to a shite school stays with you forever as does going to a good one.

All parents want the best for their kids.I personally think the whole "outstanding"thing has got out of hand. "Outstanding" in my experience is very little in difference to "Good"."Good" should be good enough and I think a mixed intake is good for all.I also think it should be recognised that teachers teaching in the more affluent areas have a far easier ride of it and if they were teaching in areas many don't want their kids to go to the same school would probably have a very different grading.

I'd love to know how other countries with more successful education systems handle intake.

I don't have issue with "rich" kids going to Grammar. I have issue with parents hot housing their kids at private primary and "using" Grammar as a cheaper option when their kids probably aren't bright enough to be there.

I hate the idea of money buying abetted education - we should all have the same opportunities - makes me sad when we are amazed at someone froma crap background doing extraordinary things.

Half of out current government went to Eton and Harrow .

Outraged we crossed posted,I agree but don't know what the answer is.

I actually think grammar schools are great but the exam should be scrapped. I know of kids who were struggling for 5 years to keep up with the rest of the class and passed the 11+ by a country mile and are now in bottom sets and will be asked to leave for 6th form.

I often feel quite similar OP! I found all the school news very boring particularly before I had children. It's the same issues that go round and round again.
I wish we were like Finland where everyone goes to their local school, which are all equally excellent (Finnish people please correct me if I am wrong).
Having said that we deliberately bought a house in the catchment area of a 'good' school.
DH was privately educated and most of his family who have young children are going private at least for high school. I just went to my local school as did everyone where I lived.

And I also agree about disruptive kids.

MrsH

MrsHeffley - agreed the teachers 'performance' is affected by the culture of the school.

I have 2 friends who are both excellent teachers but have done their fair share of 'tough' schools and are now working in 'nice' schools. The results they were able to get in the tough schools were hampered by disinterested parents who often supported the poor behaviour of their children and defended their right to beat up others, they spent more time refereeing than teaching, and gave it their all but were burnt out pretty quickly.

Both teachers are capable of delivering a great education but under the circumstances the children in the 'tough' school probably didn't receive it because things like children throwing chairs tends to get in the way of interacting well with teacher.

Some of the tough schools they worked at had good policies for managing these problems but it still affects things as the teacher still has to deal with it.

I am only partly joking when I say I think some schools should have bouncers overseeing for troublemakers so teachers can teach and troublemakers can be managed.

It troubles me that social division is getting wider and wider.

I was a thoroughly working class kid (often neighbours would give us food as they knew mum and dad had nothing to feed us with), but the main difference between me (and others in my group) and the better off kids was money, I still had pleasant manners and a good work ethic and sense of honour.

Whereas I look at the people now who I would say are the equivalent of me back then and I see a whole group of people who are different by money but also have totally different stance on so many other fundamental basics of behaviour, moral code etc.

That the two groups have an almost stand off situation is no surprise therefore.

That it has come about is very sad indeed, I think the loss of many industries which the working class did and gave it structure and purpose has been badly managed and led to disenfranchisement which in turn leads to a disconnect and sub-culture.
The gulf just widens and widens.

The school issue is a massive symptom of the bigger social problem. Makes me sad and don't see how it can improve without serious reform.

Incidentally I speak very generally about group behaviour of course. I am well aware that individuals break the mould often.

There is terrible snobbery where I live to get into the right pre-school, one in particular is seen as the 'feeder' pre-school for the most sought after primary school, Where, presumably they will make the right friends who they will have in primary school. Said school is in a nice area and looks like a village school. It has a good ofsted. No snobbery attached to another good ofsted rated school in an ok area located next to the town dump.