adults with learning difficulties on small childrens' play area.

[Bethshine82]

Took DS to the play area on Friday, it is not a huge play area and has one of those signs saying it is designed for use by children 14 and under.
Whilst we were there a group of around eight adults with learning difficulties and their carers arrived. The adults proceeded to go onto the playground.
AIBU to think this isn't very fair? They were adults and they weren't really aware of their strength and size. The carers weren't supervising brilliantly and twice I saw one of the adults just shove the children out of the way. Also some of the adults were shouting and screaming which frightened some of the toddlers. Many of the children left. I'm not in any way suggesting that adults with learning difficulties shouldn't be able to go out and enjoy themselves or that they shouldn't be part of the community, I'm just not sure a small childrens' play area is the place for an adults' afternoon out.

I think that the playground should only be used by children, it isn't safe otherwise really. AIBU?

Re child versus adult. My 13 year old son is now taller than my mum (who admittedly is small) but loves slides 'wee' as he says. He can't play on computer games or whatever it is typical 13 year olds do. Luckily we can get a slide fix at the swimming pool although we need a carer at each end.

I know 14 year olds with ld's who are over 6 foot. It's hard for them

My 14yr old DS is bigger than my DH, but he's still slowed on play equipment.

Some of the stuff said on this thread does actually make me feel ill :(

Saintly I have some experience yes. My cousin has some serious mental health issues....I spend a lot of time with her. She has paranoid episodes which can turn into odd behaviour or sometimes violence. She has frightened people on occassion as she appears manic and unpredicctable.

I know which situations to avoid with her. My DDs best friends is autistic with other needs in addition...she can react strongly to some things including loud noises and too much action...but she's only 7 so not hard to predict and they've been mates since they were 5.My frineds son has hydroencephalitis and is now a young man. I have seen him grow from a baby...(though it was thought he would not see his 2nd birthday0.to a young man now living in a flat with other young alduts and been around through a lot of his Mum's worries....watched him go to school...leave home....grow up.

I have no issues with people witH SN and sharing the world together.

I am amazed that someone is now saying they are being bullied.
what an odd thing ot say,

TheSecondComing ignore, please
you have posted some very good posts on here

Oh yes 2shoes Including that I had a problem with someone with SN LOOKING at my baby.

I'd be buggered at BBQs with my friends then wouldnt I?

welk you are the one who posted about a scarey non event..................

Thesecondcoming what exactly are you confused about I think my post is quite clear.

I wasn't really questioning your wish to share the world with people with SN's, more trying to find out why you were so frightened by someone telling you the woman might lash out when she didn't actually do anything at all. I could understand if she was hitting out of course. Would you have preferred the carer didn't say anything (genuine question again) as nothing actually happened?

Since you were not there 2shoes you can't pass judgement can you? t was not a non event. It was 6 years ago but I still remember it.

I work in a school in KS4 - the class is all male. We take them out and let them go into play areas. But not ones for small children - it's the big wooden structured designed for older children/ teens. Parks are age appropriate if you consider cognitive age. We find it very sad when we are in the woods etc and our pupils use the equipment that people leave. Our pupils are not a risk to others - well no more than another child is - or we not not take them out.

YANBU to think they shouldn't have been in a playpark for people under 14 years. They couldn't use softplay for the chronological age reason.

YABU for thinking it's not the best outing - in fact climbing, balancing, running etc offer far more to someone with LD (who may also have sensory impairment) than to most other people.

jim because I had to spend the entire journey twisting this way and that to avoid the lady wth SN....I put that RIGHT at the start of my contributions to this thread....it was very uncomforable and I was unhappy to be in that situation when I was carrying a newish baby.

The woman told me about the risks in a brusque manner....she then stood next to me with the lady she was assisting and did nothing else to occupy the lady.

I felt threatned. As any new Mother might. Is that wrong? Should I have thought...this lady has SN I refuse to be afraid! Because sorry for being honest but I WAS afraid.

ah, tolerance is alive and well on mn I see. (and yes, I have read most of the 400 plus messages on this thread).

Let's put this into context shall we? Let's look at some of the comments on this thread, comments that I have seen time and time and time again on mn and elsewhere. And you know what the biiggest one is? "people with disabilities should be allowed to go anywhere." erm, now let's be honest here, would you apply that statement to any other section of society?

"women should be allowed to go anywhere."

"Men should be allowed to go anywhere."

"Black people should be allowed to go anywhere."

"children should be allowed to go anywhere."

"gay people should be allowed to go anywhere."

Would you make that statement in reference to any of the above? no? then why would you make it in reference to people with disabilities? The fact is that people with disabilities are allowed to go anywhere in exactly the same way as anyone else. Their disability doesn't preclude them from being "allowed" to do so, the ignorance of the likes of some of the people on this thread does. So when you make that statement that "people with disabilities should be allowed to go anywhere/have the same freedoms as everyone else," you are directly separating the rights of people with disabilities from those of everyone else. The disabled should not have the same rights as everyone else, they do have the same rights as everyone else, it's the public that don't want to acknowledge that.

As for someone with a tendency to lash out not being allowed on public transport, how far would you apply this logic? On Saturday night I went into London, and came back home, on the underground and then a mainline train at around 11:00. The tube was full of drunk people, there were a fair few of them on the mainline train I travelled on. Now we all know that drunks have a tendency to lash out, I mean you just have to go into any city centre on a Saturday night to see the effects of alcohol. Perhaps we should ban drunks from public transport? Many toddlers have a tendency to lash out, just look at the threads on mn about children being hit/bitten by other children, perhaps children under the age of, oh, three, should be banned from public transport because of the risk they pose to other children? oh but wait, if all children under three are banned from public transport then there won't be any risk to other children because there won't be any on the busses..

The instant you start making blanket statements that include specific sections of society you enter into the realms of prejudice. and hiding behind the statement that "I know someone with sn/have a brother/sister/have worked with/once saw a child in the park" doesn't make you any less immune from being prejudiced. My mother has a daughter with a disability (me), and she is one of the most prejudiced people I know.

And people are obsessed with risk. Your child is at risk if he climbs on to a climbing frame that is taller than him. He is at risk if you take him in the car. He is at risk every time you cross a road. That is life. And really, it's just a playground. It's not a life-changing thing they are missing out on if you don't want them there for one day...

And to clarify further I would never leave a park which was being used by people with SN...why would I??

I feel I should add (for no apparent reason) that my friend and I took our 3 children to a park tonight. Its a bigger equipment park. We had great fun playing on the equipment with our children. We were the only ones there though! And as many others said there are teens bigger than us.

and I fell off and bruised my ribs!

wannaBe good post

But I was asking whether you would have preferred not to have been told, which is a different issue. I was thinking because sometimes I might say something about ds1 'watch out he might sniff you' for example (he doesn't really lash out randomly so I wouldn't say that), but I'm wondering if by saying some random thing he might do, but actually doesn't begin to actually makes things worse.

Good post wannabe- and that's actually why I have a real aversion to 'educating' people. When I go out and about with ds2 and ds3 we are anonymous, we can do what we like, we can go about our business without being gawped at, without anyone expecting us to 'educate' any eye rolling, huffy puffing, swearing, lemon sucking ignoramus we're unfortunate enough to meet. But when I go out with ds1 suddenly it's different. Not only do I have far less ability to actually hold a conversation with anyone because my attention is taken by ds1 I'm also expected to educate people. Even when they're huffing and puffing at absolutely nothing. Of course on the rare occasions that ds1 does something that might actually impinge to a large degree on someone we'll apologise (I can't actually think of an example tbh so I'm not sure it's happened) but I'm not going to apologise to someone because they have to share the same air with someone who is learning disabled.

people shouldn't have to explain. Anyone who does not realise that a child over the age of about three that is non verbal, or over the age of about six that is having a meltdown has some form of disability is an idiot.

People are too full of their own sense of entitlement to consider that they are not the only ones who are entitled...

I was on the bus once with 4 of my children. 3 of my 4 have SEN. My youngest now very close to a diagnosis of ADHD and ASD was around 2. I was sat at the front as we had been out and we had the pushchair with us. The youngest kept crying and screaming and trying to push the bus bell. His 4 year old brother (ASD) was reading out the bus adverts loudly as he was reading fluenty "Chlamydia - wear a condom" - repeatedly. The older 2 had decided to sit at the back of the bus with their dad.

So this lady on the bus I am sure with hhe best of intentions piped up " Aww - are they tired, isin't he great at reading, now stop pressing that button or the bus driver will throw you off young man, have you given them sweets - you have to be careful what you give them you know they all have E numbers in them and lots of sugar - shhh that mans trying to sleep over there you will wake him up, it's a pity they haven't got naughty steps on buses - do you watch supernanny - you should you could pick up some great tips - oo this is my stop you can ring the bell now if you want tooo........

Very scary experience from a NT adult which has put me off public transport for life!!

AwkwardMary this was one incident for you nothing happened the career with her warned you she could do nothing more (or take her off the bus), some here have to worry every day about their child in a way we do not have to, they have to asses dangers all the time, they have to worry about their child being discriminated against, their future and then because a few might on occasion lash out they have to be kept from doing something they may really enjoy in the company of those that know how to handle difficult situations

really you should stop now, after reading r3dh3d most moving post i thought you would try and see things from another angle but you are not willing to so why not just let it rest. surely the words from a mother with a daughter who will not develop beyond the age of 9 months and her fears for her daughter touched you, think of the many parents in her position and how the parents of this women on the bus would feel hearing someone say this about their own child its heartbreaking

Fair point WannaBe. How would you suggest that someone rephrases themselves to convey that they fully realise that people who have LDs have every right to go to the same places as everyone else and they are not one of the bigots that clearly exist.

Genuine question, btw.

This is supposed to be MUMSnet. I find it surprising that members of MN can't understand a mother who is standing on what must have been a crowded bus with her pfb in a sling may be slightly alarmed at being told their baby may get hit. Or at least alarmed enough to remember it when she read a random thread about someone else's experience with a simelar thing.