adults with learning difficulties on small childrens' play area.

[Bethshine82]

Took DS to the play area on Friday, it is not a huge play area and has one of those signs saying it is designed for use by children 14 and under.
Whilst we were there a group of around eight adults with learning difficulties and their carers arrived. The adults proceeded to go onto the playground.
AIBU to think this isn't very fair? They were adults and they weren't really aware of their strength and size. The carers weren't supervising brilliantly and twice I saw one of the adults just shove the children out of the way. Also some of the adults were shouting and screaming which frightened some of the toddlers. Many of the children left. I'm not in any way suggesting that adults with learning difficulties shouldn't be able to go out and enjoy themselves or that they shouldn't be part of the community, I'm just not sure a small childrens' play area is the place for an adults' afternoon out.

I think that the playground should only be used by children, it isn't safe otherwise really. AIBU?

A risk which was easily averted by AM turning her back - hardly a major inconvenience? Certainly not a big enough problem to ban the lady from public transport!

I do supervise my children adequately, thanks.

"The difference is, that teenagers and bigger children on equipment meant for children of a younger age are probably capable of using more advanced equipment or choosing other games, therefore they are probably mucking about and perhaps shouldn't be there."

Whether they are mucking about, or are capable of using more advanced equipment should have no bearing on anything.

If they are restricted from using some equipment, the only possible justification is that their larger size creates hazards for smaller children.

If they want to use the equipment when it is not in use, the who would complain? Not I, certainly. If 14 year olds want to mess about on the toddler climbing frames, it's no skin off my nose (as long as they don't cover them in jelly) but I expect them to piss off when actual toddlers need them.

Obviously that is not a fair expectation for adults for whom that equipment is devopmentally appropriate, but neither is it reasonable to expect toddlers to be put at risk.

Now, either there is no risk from larger children using the same equipment at the same time, in which case all size restrictions must go, or there is a risk, in which case that risk still exists when you are talking about LD adults.

Clearly many people think anyone of any size should use any equipment as they please without restriction, with no attempt to create places where the smallest can play without constant close supervision (including toddlers with SN).

I prefer that we figure out safe ways to share the resources we have.

It doesn't mean I hate children with SN, or think they are scary, or want my children to be "protected" from feeling "intimidated" by them.

I just want there to be places where smallness is prioritised over bigness without a need for constant parental hovering.

YANBU I can't believe how people turn things that are said around to try & make people feel like they have a problem with SNA, I have also been in a playground designed for young children & a group of SN teenagers have come onto play & I thought it was awful for the young children & SN teenagers the teenagers where going up a slide & just shoving anyone in there way, well that is dangerous & those that say well all kids shove at parks this is true but a 3 yr old shoved by a 15 yr old lad with SN is not acceptable as they mentally may be on par with that 3 yr old but strength wise they would shove that child into the middle of next week!! It is ridiculous of anyone to say that it is appropriate, for these two very different groups to share a playground I have a friend who is a manager at a SN adults centre & said its lazy carers & she would never put her SN adults in that situation.

OP as the mother of a 15 year old son who is 6 foot 2 and in the AS spectrum I totally agree with you. Adults with or without learning difficulties should not be using a child's play area.

I think it is dangerous as clearly the equipment is not built for adults, and TBH I think t is a bit degrading for the adult to be taken to a child's play park, thankfully my son does not need carers but I have a wheelchair dependent mother who has carers and I would have any one who laughed at her out of a job so fast their head would spin.

And baking - I used to try and educate. After about five years I gave up because I found if I said 'sorry he's severely autistic' the usual response was 'well he shouldn't be doing that' 'that' being something like jumping and shouting outside (ooh how terrible). Or the utterly charming 'well he shouldn't be allowed out'. Or recently the lovely 'fuck off'.

Ds1 has never hurt anyone on our trips out but he often requires very close supervision to not be run over or lost, so buggered if I'm going to start explaining the bleeding obvious to the ignorant who has no wish to be educated and leave him to get squashed. Last time I intervened when someone got a strop on because he'd stood in the wrong pkace in the queue he used the time i was explaining to do a wee in campervan that was at an exhibit so now I just concentrate my attention on him rather than the huff huff brigade.

I did scream 'he doesn't understand what you're saying' at someone who started screaming at him recently (he ran towards their parked car, god knows what they thought he might do) but no otherwise I don't really bother.

The flip side is of course that in our travels and day to day life we meet some truly lovely people and I've had people between the ages of 19 and 70 stick up for him and tell people having a go to get stuffed.

I am getting a little confused now ... Athing has in fact said that in her opinion adults with LD should be able to use play equipment . She has just said that she is aware that there could be risks involved if several adults on the same equipment in restricted space as small child.

That is far removed from intolerance or segregation surely.

It is most definatly a worry r3dh3d ....... resources are so stretched and have to be fought hard for even now and even for situations where parents health or physical safety is at risk. I worry for my grandchildren generally anyway ( and I must admit for my OH /self re support when we old and infrim) and that worry is multiplied indefinately for mums / parents or such vulnerable children as your DD. (((0)))

I hope I do not upset anyone and that it is not taken out of context but some peoples experience with people with LD might indeed give them cause for concern. I have worked for many years with people whos behaviour is called various things from challenging to unsociable and need support in a residential setting ..... and despite various tactics / support /distraction there are occasions when people with LD do adversly impact physically on others or they see it happening.

and like someone said I too am wary of groups of young people at night in the city and of drunks mostly due to bad publicity I must say and despite kmowing that the majority of young people would not cause me harm. I am more wary in the street than I am at work !!!!

Of course the baby was not hurt. With due respect we have no way of measuring a risk that when stated to us is not quantified.

Perhaps the carer would have been wiser not to say anything if the risk was so minimal as to be contained simply by standing in a slightly different position.

Perhaps it was so minimal that a warning was above and beyond what was required, but she was being responsibile in uttering it anyway?

We don't know. I am just sorry that someone was put in a position where they were afraid their child was likely to be harmed, and found it very difficult to take the precaution suggested by the carer. I don't think that is fair.

2Shoes if you meant who pays for the taxis - well the government should, obviously but I'm sure they don't.

If we have a scenario where people cannot use alternative transport due to funding then I guess we all have to do our best to compromise. And I agree extra supervision or having to move a bit (if it's possible) is not a lot to ask BUT ideally, it shouldn't be necessary.

I didn't ask for extra money to take my ill children in the car everywhere so as to avoid putting other people at risk, but that for us was a temporary blip on an otherwise privileged world of freedom that people with SN cannot enjoy.

So I do see what you are saying.

I hope that came across right. Our problem was indeed temporary. Forthose for whom it is not I imagine the world feels like a very, very harsh place indeed.

and if I were in government I would be making taxis free for people with SN whose parents or carers feel they would do better in a taxi than on a bus for whatever reason. And buses would be free as well.

Kladdkaka I quite believe you.

Actually one huge advantage of employing my helpers is that it's someone to bounce all the aggro off. You can get rid of it there and then by commenting to each other and it's like having a supportive hand I've only been driven to tears when someone has a go when i'm alone with ds1.

Ds1 lucky is pretty much oblivious to people having a go at him. Unfortunately his younger brothers aren't and they have on occasion been upset by public attitudes. Although ds3 (7) usually just asks in a loud voice why they're being horrible (it is genuine confusion on his part).

I'll vote for you then Flightty

TSC WHERE DID I SAY THAT CHILDREN WITH SN SHOULD NOT TRAVEL WITH OTHERS?????

THIS THREAD HAS MADE ME FUCKING LIVID! MY POST WAS ABOUT AN ADULT AND I HAVE ONLY SPOKEN ABOUT ADULTS!

flipping eck thread moves quick.

it is very difficult isnt it saintlyjimjams ..... .. explaining the autistic spectrum ........ people either expect someone uncontrollable or a "rain man" savaunt.

Truth is people with LD are not the lable ...... they are people with a huge range of abilities and the personalities / emotions / reactions everyone has ... postive and negative !

Mary I was for you earlier. I don't think you got a fair hearing at all.

Don't worry, it happens sometimes. You didn't say anything that looked (from an outsider's perspective) that bothersome. But any words can be turned round if people try hard enough.

SAUVIGNON If youu read ALL of my posts I DID TURN MY BACK AND THE WOMAN continued to try to look at DD....she was interested. I know that. I am not a fucking monster.

Do you know if I thought the general public only complained when people with ld's were behaving in a challenging way then I coukd understand to some degree.

But they don't - ds1 gets far more aggro and hassle when he is behaving well. or maybe I just don't notice when he's kicking off. But certainly i have felt at my most uncomfortable when he is doing absolutely nothing that coukd remotely offend anyone. It's pure intolerance at his existence.

As I said before the flip side it we now know some really truly lovely people. Including people we only ever see out and about who are absolutely wonderful with him. Today we went to our regular cafe. New guy working there, already knows ds1's name and is already lovely with him. These people make a difference. Especially because there's often someone gawking in the queue.

Flighty Oh and HOW hard have some of these people tried! Ridiculous.

Thankyou very much Sauvignon and Mavis. I'm glad if we are on the same wavelength in some respects. I would hate, hate, hate to get it wrong regarding this subject. I'm probably still getting some of it wrong but the thread has made me think a lot more deeply and somewhat differently so thankyou everyone who has posted from an SN/carer point of view. And sorry about the stuff I didn't get before.

AM I have read all of your post and am aware that the woman looked at your baby.

it has made you livid

how do you think parents of children with sn feel when they have to hear yet again their child(who may be an adult and one day shall be) should be kept away from others just in case something may happen

i would be raging and deeply hurt