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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

adults with learning difficulties on small childrens' play area.

580 replies

Bethshine82 · 15/04/2012 16:40

Took DS to the play area on Friday, it is not a huge play area and has one of those signs saying it is designed for use by children 14 and under.
Whilst we were there a group of around eight adults with learning difficulties and their carers arrived. The adults proceeded to go onto the playground.
AIBU to think this isn't very fair? They were adults and they weren't really aware of their strength and size. The carers weren't supervising brilliantly and twice I saw one of the adults just shove the children out of the way. Also some of the adults were shouting and screaming which frightened some of the toddlers. Many of the children left. I'm not in any way suggesting that adults with learning difficulties shouldn't be able to go out and enjoy themselves or that they shouldn't be part of the community, I'm just not sure a small childrens' play area is the place for an adults' afternoon out.

I think that the playground should only be used by children, it isn't safe otherwise really. AIBU?

OP posts:
fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 16/04/2012 12:37

but the right DOES come automatically, measures should be put in place if their behaviour could harm others but they DO have the right, that is the whole point.

Agincourt · 16/04/2012 12:41

It was only one person out of the whole group that shoved a child if you read the OP and the woman on the bus didn't do anything Confused

I am not sure what loud noises, shouting and screaming has to do with anything really. Noise levels at playgrounds are usually pretty high anyway

claw4 · 16/04/2012 12:47

Baking, They were not in a soft play centre, it was a swing park.

Of course it is not 'normal' adult behaviour, they have a disability. As i said if i were in a park and my ds got shoved out of the way by an adult with a disability it would scare him, i would take this opportunity to explain to him that adult's have disabilities and not everyone has the same understanding.

If they shoved him out of the way roughly or with force, i would have had a word with the carer.

Who lashed out at a baby?

I love the way you had added pushed and shoved to add impact. I got the impression that the shoving must have been quite gentle as no one was shoved to the ground or hurt.

bakingaddict · 16/04/2012 12:49

I didn't say they didn't have the right did I...nobody is automatically precluding them from buses, play centres etc but if their behaviour is not consistent to safely using these facilites for themselves and others then it's not fair to put other members of the public in harms way.

claw4 · 16/04/2012 12:53

Why was it not safe? no one was hurt on the bus or at the park?

So we are talking about 'potentially' putting the public in harms way?

2shoes · 16/04/2012 12:54

so now we have a.

play park
a changing room
and a bus.

ffs this thread is getting like a rather nasty anti sn thread.

Kladdkaka · 16/04/2012 12:58

Claw4 'potentially' putting the public in harms way is apparantly the most commonly used justification for disability discrimination. It was the reason I was humiliated and thrown out of a public place. Thankfully the DDA addresses it and says it is not acceptable. I found this out when the courts upheld my case against those who thought it was ok.

yakbutter · 16/04/2012 13:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

washngo · 16/04/2012 13:04

It is a shame that there aren't good enough facilities and activities available to people with ld in your area, because if there were then surely the carers would have preferred to take them somewhere which was created with their needs in mind? Although they don't sound like very caring carers. I think the issue of laughing at a hurt person in their care should be reported (if that is definitely what went on).

claw4 · 16/04/2012 13:04

Kladdkaka, exactly!

AwkwardMaryHadAnEasterLamb · 16/04/2012 13:07

I feel that some people on this thread are gung ho and violently opposed to making ANY allowances for ANYONE else with regards to those with SN.

It's "My way or the highway". People don't live like that...SN or not, sometimes you have to put the public first and I wouldn't shove my buggy onto a bus with my DD in it just because she's a child and might be tired...no...she can stand or be carried and I will fold the buggy up.

That's because I consider OTHER PEOPLE not only my child...who does not ave SN bt that is not the point.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 16/04/2012 13:10

that is just not true, people have suggested better supervision, not doing nothing and allowing others to get hurt..just not in favour of segregation.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 16/04/2012 13:11

getting your NT child to stand on the bus is not the same as insisting some people with SN do not use public transport btw Wink

2old2beamum · 16/04/2012 13:11

Well 2shoes we meet again.
All of you who seem to despise anyone outside the norm do you realise how hurtful you are to them and their parents. I have 3 young adults who like many of their friends are the kindest and the most thoughtful people I have ever met. Why don't you try and get to know them. BTW where the fuck can they have pure fun nowhere with so many bigots around AngryAngry
Thanks to you all who accept our lovely people.

claw4 · 16/04/2012 13:15

Putting the public first, people with disabilities are part of the public!

I dont want my ds with a disability to received 'special' treatment, just equal treatment.

AwkwardMaryHadAnEasterLamb · 16/04/2012 13:21

So I am obviously BU to think that anyone with violent tendancies should not be on public transport with minimal supervision.
As a lot of people on here would have it, it is more important to allow people with viloent tendancies full use of ALL amenities....than to worry about any risk this puts other people at?

And no. I do not thnk all people with SN are violent. I KNOW they are not.
I will just have to accept that I am wrong though I can't fathom why.

2old2beamum · 16/04/2012 13:21

Well said claw4

Kladdkaka · 16/04/2012 13:23

2old2beamum when I got thrown out of a museum on account of my disability it wasn't just hurtful, it was devastating. I was traumatised by it and had to go for counselling. I didn't leave the house for months afterwards and have yet to go anywhere on my own (it was 5 years ago).

bakingaddict · 16/04/2012 13:27

Claw...you know it was awkwardmary posting about being on the bus with her baby you've submitted enough replies about it. I thought the OP was specifying a soft play centre which normally have confined spaces. I said in a previous post that adults with SN's use my local park and I dont have any problems with my kids being there around them.

But back to awkwardmary's scenario why would the carer mention that the lady lashes out at babies if it was completely untrue or never happened. Awkward herself said she was quite lively and the carer was barely coping. Everybody must get equal protection in law to facilities, jobs etc. You can use public transport, facilities etc but if your behaviour affects other users then who takes precedence.

That nothing happpened on this occasion is irrelevant, the whole point of the comment was to warn awkwardmary implying that she's done this before. Is awkward's baby now being denied the right to travel on the bus in case it provokes this woman? Most people will automatically give certain leeways, I always get off the bus with my buggy to make way for wheelchair users, vacate seats so lesser abled body person can sit down i'm not anti-disabled in anyway but why is it acceptable for people who have a history of lashing out at babies to use the bus with less than adequate supervision and for people like myself who question this wisdom to be labelled anti-SN's, disabled Nazi's etc

5inthebed · 16/04/2012 13:30

Could you imagine the public outcry if a park warden came along and herded all the children and their parents out of the park so that the group with LDs could access their pre-booked time? There would be quite a few catbum faces I bet.

It is sad that adults with LDs have nowhere to go and play. Occasionally there are parks built to accommodate this (there has just been one completed in my home town), but where are those who aren't as lucky meant to go?

Educate your children about LDs, perfect opportunity right there in the park.

5inthebed · 16/04/2012 13:31

Oh, and I never met a person with an LD until I was 15, having grew up in a small mnig village in South Africa, where people with LDs didn't exist except from behind closed doors.

tazzle · 16/04/2012 13:31

The thing about having rights is that with rights comes responsibility .... the responsibility and accountability for ones actions. If an adult ( or child) does not have the cognition to understand social responsibility then approriate others must enure that other people are not harmed when that particular person is included in society.

In the park where there is a for safety age limit on certain equipment then everyone should adhere to that limit .......... or we get to the situation where we pick and choose which rules we obey. If it said no dogs in the play area and someone took one in we would quite rightly get angry even if the owner said... its ok I wont let it poop !

The carers in ths case should not take the adults to the play equipment imo no matter what behaviour they did or did not show.

It is flipping frustrating that there are so few facilities where adults can play and indulge their inner child whether that adult has identified learning disabilities or not.

I think kladdkaka that in the bus situation for the PA to have said what she did that the person she was accompanying must have "lashed out" before at small children otherwise she would have no reason to say anything to a mother with a baby in a sling. If anyone has a history of becoming stressed by certain situations and becoming verbally or physically aggressive then there is a responsibility to enure the safety of others. If that means that person no longer goes on public transport then that is how it should be. I have been in the situation of being injured myself trying to protect people on a bus when a situation arose with an adult becoming stressed and hitting / kicking out.

If small children stressed this woman and shehad lashed out before then imo its unfair on the woman to put her in the situation.

I have to go now but I would like to comment further ..... I'll be back Grin

claw4 · 16/04/2012 13:32

Awkward, you are probably already sharing your bus with lots of people with violent tendancies, domestic violence, someone who may have been arrested for a violent crime for example. Should these people also not be allowed to use public transport? Potentially they could be violent again.

You also have no idea whether the lady you encountered on bus did have minimal supervision, unless she has a track record for attacking people on buses when supervised by one person?

How often do you hear about people with SN's attacking other people in public? Work out your risk assessment based on that.

2old2beamum · 16/04/2012 13:33

kladdkaka How dare they, you are a human being first and foremost I feel there should be more prosecutions for those who flout the DD Act. Hope you get some confidence back soon.

Kladdkaka · 16/04/2012 13:35

If anyone has a history of becoming stressed by certain situations and becoming verbally or physically aggressive then there is a responsibility to enure the safety of others.

She ensured the safety of others by warning them about it so both the carer and the parent could make sure it didn't happen again. And it didn't happen again. But that wasn't good enough. Confused