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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to have been shocked by US anti-abortion feature on Newsnight

253 replies

wimblehorse · 14/04/2012 17:37

This was a few days ago but haven't had chance to post sooner.

The feature was about how far to the right the republican presidential candidates have been pushing on the abortion debate and showed a group in Ohio who are lobbying for abortion law there to be (further) restricted so that once a fetal heartbeat has been detected through compulsory vaginal probe ultra-sound - which can be after 5-6 weeks - then a termination cannot be carried out.

A huge number of women would not even know they were pregnant at 5-6 weeks, and even those who found out straight away it doesn't give much time to be able to arrange a termination, especially as so many clinics/hospitals have been forced to close.

Already in that state, women seeking terminations are forced to have vaginal ultrasound probes and hear/see the heartbeat before having a termination.

The group who were lobbying claimed that detection of the heartbeat was a fundamental sign of life and therefore terminating a pregnancy after this had been detected was "wrong". However it's just a sign of current medical technology. There are many people alive today who have had periods of no detectable heartbeat and have been resuscitated - brain death is what is considered the fundamental sign of life and they had no medical link between detection of ultra-sound heartbeat to development of brain function - awareness/pain etc - in a fetus.

It's an arbitrary measure that is trying to make it almost impossible to seek a safe, legal termination and I really hope that it doesn't make further headway.

Rant over.

WIBU to have been shocked?

OP posts:
Tee2072 · 14/04/2012 17:45

Nope. YANBU

Maybe a bit naive about the state of abortion law in the US. But not shocked. It is shocking.

And, personally, I'm grateful it. Every stupid idea the religious Republican right puts forth in their war against women is one more vote for Obama's re-election. Even some of the Republicans are speaking out against shit like this.

He hasn't been perfect. But he's better than the Republican candidate(s) by a long chalk.

Seabright · 14/04/2012 17:46

I agree with you. I am shocked by the anti-abortion debate in the US at present. I know it's always been more controversial there than here, but they seem to be getting so close in some states to making it illegal again.

Not that we are perfect here; the situation in Northern Ireland is ridiculous.

ragged · 14/04/2012 17:47

Tee & I agree. :)

Tee2072 · 14/04/2012 17:53

I live in Northern Ireland, Sea. And it sure is.

I'm very agreeable. Grin

Original poster
wimblehorse · 14/04/2012 17:53

True, I guess we can hope that people there are shocked by it too and so vote appropriately.

I just wanted to scream at the TV to those people that they should spend some of their time/money that they did promoting their "cause" instead working to support kids in care, or families who were struggling or women in domestic violence situations ....

OP posts:
hairytale · 14/04/2012 18:19

Yanbu it's gross.

Roseformeplease · 14/04/2012 18:22

Agreed. The compulsory vaginal ultrasound is an unnecessary medical procedure and is very, very intrusive.

Debeez · 14/04/2012 18:23

YANBU. Problem is most of them are more than anti-abortion, they're anti women having freedom. They've picked the most emotive issue possible to put across their views. I can't imagine how some women must feel after an abortion but I bet these clowns don't help.

Acekicker · 14/04/2012 18:25

I did applaud the Virginia State Senator who in response to the proposed ultrasound clause said that all men should have to undergo a prostate exam before being prescribed Viagra!

There is some truly scary stuff coming out of the US at the moment on women's rights. Rush Limbaugh's comments a few weeks ago were just horrible!

Roseformeplease · 14/04/2012 18:25

Just read up about NI. Was shocked. Didn't know that. So the NHS there does not even pay for travel, accommodation etc to have it done elsewhere?

oopsi · 14/04/2012 18:29

I would support an abortion ban, save in a very few exceptional cases.I believe a human life is a human life, however immature that life is.A 23 week baby premature baby is much less developed than a newborn, who is less developed than an adult.Do we condone taking the life of any of these? No

Tee2072 · 14/04/2012 18:29

Sure don't Rose.

msrisotto · 14/04/2012 18:39

Blah blah blah a human life is a human life, because dickheads who come up with that sentence invariably never ever apply it to women and their rights to their own lives.

Acekicker · 14/04/2012 18:44

That's fine that you have that viewpoint oopsi but what's happening in America isn't as straightforward as 'banning' an abortion as Roe vs Wade has said women have the right to choose to have one. What Republicans and State Legislatures are doing is trying to make it as unpleasant as they can for women to have one, in fact they're going beyond unpleasant; they're trying to make it as humiliating and difficult and emotionally damaging as they can - to me that is morally repugnant.

Don't forget as well that at the same time many Republicans are lobbying for their beloved health insurers to not cover contraception either. They're getting extremely close to exercising governmental control over women's bodies and their right to have and enjoy sex.

But let's not forget that the GOP are the ones against 'Big Government' and generally scream at the government trying to interfere in their daily lives: want the right to buy a gun in Walmart and shoot a black kid who you think is acting suspiciously, that's fine, it's your right and the government can't stop you. Want the right to watch your neighbour lose their home because they can't afford the medical bills/never had insurance in the first place - go right on ahead, your neighbour should have worked harder to afford insurance. Want the right as a woman to have access to contraception that you can afford or a termination for a pregnancy that is a result of domestic violence/rape....apparently that's entirely different and the remit of the government...

BlackOutTheSun · 14/04/2012 18:47

oopsi - that makes no sense, you either agree with abortion or you don't. what would these exceptional cases be? oh you were raped, ok you can have one. You forgot to take the pill one morning, or comdom broke? Nope, you can't so you are now forced to carry out a pregnany against your wishes.

Also most abortions are before the 12 week mark!

thebody · 14/04/2012 18:52

Opposi u do what's right for u but how fuckin dare you think u can make decisions about my or my dds bodies. Shame on u.

Again we have religion controlling women's bodies, Christian, Muslim, blah blah blah

Hopandaskip · 14/04/2012 18:55

paraphrasing Richard Dawkins... many of the people who are rabidly anti-abortion because "it is a life" and "there is a heartbeat" etc, have no qualms eating meat which undoubtably comes from a life that is more developed and absolutely feels pain.

For that matter, how come these people (in the U.S) aren't rabidly protesting the death penalty with as much vigour as abortion?

Original poster
wimblehorse · 14/04/2012 18:58

YYY Blackout & Ace.
Oopsi who would get to decide?
There are already restrictions and reasons for them.
No-one wakes up one day thinking "I really want an abortion. Just got to get pregnant first so I can have one". Sometimes, circumstances mean it's the best option. Damn right the woman's rights matter more than a fetus'.

OP posts:
HorribleDay · 14/04/2012 19:00

100% pro choice here. I am in the camp that any woman should be allowed to choose what to do with their bodies - for whatever reason. I think OUR laws are outdated (2 doctors, risk to maternal psychological or physical health etc). What's happening in the US is vile. Absolutely vile. How dare anyone dictate what a woman can or can't do with their body?

For me, forcing a woman to continue an unwanted pregnancy is akin to the violation that occurs when a woman is raped. We rightly have laws that protect women from gross bodily violation (tho obviously these are imperfectly applied) - for me, personally, laws that restrict women's bodily autonomy are close to laws that allow violations of the same body to be allowed.

blobtobetter · 14/04/2012 19:02

I think I would find it near impossible to contemplate having an abortion but that is my choice based on my feelings and religious views. I wouldn't try to change the law so that everyone has to live by my standards.

The thing that scares me is the stories you always hear about women using abortions as birth control. If someone makes a mistake or misses a pill or whatever that is an accident but it seems different if a person does it repeatedly and has 5, 6, 7 plus abortions.

whackamole · 14/04/2012 19:05

Has anyone seen this? I thought it was a joke as I saw it linked on Facebook.

These are a big part of the reason I could never live in the USA.

HorribleDay · 14/04/2012 19:08

I agree that it worries me if women are having multiple terminations - it worries me that they haven't been educated after the first termination about the vest possible contraception (termination is not an easy option, or the safest contraception, for anyone) and also that no one's explore their psychological wrongfulness in terms of protecting themselves.

But I also think it's very very rare for women to have more than 1 termination.

HorribleDay · 14/04/2012 19:08

Wrongfulness??? Wellbeing. Obviously.

Debeez · 14/04/2012 19:10

oopsi I'm pro life. I don't believe in abortions therefore I will not have one. My personal views on my body should not infringe any woman's views or rights overs hers. Be as anti-abortion as you want, with your own body, leave everyone else alone.

WillieWaggledagger · 14/04/2012 19:11

this is a good response