To be very very angry? (Disabled DS denied wheelchair space on bus - again)

[LifeHope11]

DS (11y) was about to get on the bus with his carer but the driver refused to let them on....shook his head and said 'sorry you can't get on, there are two prams in the space' and then shut the doors and drove off.

DH & I are both livid, this is not the first time this has happened.

DH complained to the bus company.....the first person he spoke to claimed that if there are 2 prams on board they take priority over a wheelchair! That was news to us, and appears to contradict the notices on the wheelchair spaces on the buses which states that priority is given to wheelchairs and anyone else in the space must give way etc. DH refused to accept this response & demanded to speak to a manager who gave him a case number. So we are waiting to hear more.

i feel that our DS has been discriminated against and denied his right to travel freely. Just to be sure, we don't blame the owners of the buggies on the bus....they were never even asked to move & probably were not aware of anything. But I don't want this kind of treatment of the disabled to be acceptable any more and I want things to change.

Manic theres no need to be personally insulting to other posters.

I know alot of bus drivers are on crazy tight schedules which possibly is what is at play here. not wanting to 'faff around'.

getting a pram down takes ac while with lotsac stuff and drivers can get antsy.

Over the lst 4 years of using my wheelchair I can't remember a single incident where I've had a problem gettinga driver to put down his ramp or working something out with the mothers/fathers with buggies.

the first year however I was told everything from 'sorry space is full with pushchairs' to 'We can't legally take your wheelchair' It's a powerchair that fits throgh a normal doorway - infact legally they are obliged to take me if there is a free space ie. no other wheelchair user. I used to phone the local buscall number - it meant everytime a driver discriminated against me I could give them the bus number, the stop and the time so they knew exactly which bus driver was at fault, after a year no more problems.

Now all I have to deal with is the regular conversation of wether the chair can hover through the doorway without the ramp - and am I certain the technology really hasn't been invented yet - I blame the new Dr Who Darleks personally. I've even been told about the worlds most amazing man who can tip his own wheelchair back and get himself on without the drivers needing to leave the cab - unfortunatly I am not a strapping fit young man with an unfortunate walking difficulty, I'm a young woman with a connective tissue disorder who can't even push their own wheelchair for fear of their shoulders leaving their sockets - but us disabled people and our equptment we are all identical doncha know

I am so on your behalf OP.

One of the criteria I used when buying a pushchair was that I could fold it easily with one hand. Thankfully my DS is out of pushchairs, but those times spent pushing him gave me a better understanding of what it must be like for those in wheelchairs and their carers.

Many a time I wished I had the stencil used by wheelchair users in Dublin in the 90s as part of a guerilla campaign to highlight the difficulties faced by disabled people.

Luckily I have always encountered civil and helpful bus drivers when out and about in a wheelchair. I am so sad to hear about the problems others have been having in this day and age.

What is upsetting about all this is not so much the ignorance and obstructiveness of the drivers, but the behaviour on the onlooking passengers. What are they thinking of, allowing others to be treated in this way? I honestly can't imagine a situation where I would let someone be abandoned at the side of the road if I thought there was a way of making room safely on the bus. Do other people really just sit there and gawp?

PS As you can now buy a light, umbrella style stroller for £15-£20, or even get them free on Freecycle (including ones suitable from birth) why on earth are people taking these pantechnicons on public transport?

igggi the TfL website says no-one would be asked to leave the bus only fold and move. If full therefore and no-one was getting off then the wheelchair user would have to wait.

Thanks, hopefully someone would offer though (maybe makes a difference if it's a route with buses every two mins or every half hour, I'd imagine).
I don't like the 'why aren't all babies in easily foldable buggies' argument, very sensible for older ones but newborns should lie properly flat and ideally facing the parent - that's the kind of thing that women may have thought of when choosing their pram. And in early days you'd struggle to support a baby and fold it anyway. It doesn't matter if it folds or not, as long as you're willing to give up the space to a disabled person.

I have wondered though, if a bus was actually full (ie at whatever the max amount of people was) and a wheelchair user wanted on, would they get someone else to get off?

If the bus is genuinely full, then they have to wait for the next one. Although I have seen able people choose to get off to make space.

My experience is that most people are very helpful and considerate. Unfortunately though it only takes 1 to completely ruin your day/week.

we got off the bus last week to give way to a wheel chair. I don't understand why someone in a wheelchair should have to wait for another bus when the spaces are reserved for them and people in prams occupy them.

As above, we had one instance when we were at the hospital and two wheelchair users tried to get on. we just got off with the buggy rather than faff about folding it. Buses are every 10 mins though, if it had been 30 mins or longer I'd have asked the bus driver if he could wait for us to fold the pram.

Have to say, in our area (Wiltshire) I use the bus daily and people are generally polite, don't sit in the disabled or elderly areas unless they have to and someone will always move if an elderly/disabled person gets on. This behaviour is reinforced through visibility, and I have been known to jump out of my seat to offer it to someone less able when there are empty seats

Should add that we have 2 buggies. The behemoth off-road one ( which was free from local adverts ) has never been on the bus, despite it being easier to push about town.

Mushroom, a child in a buggy can get out and be held whole the pushchair is collapsed so that it takes up less room, a wheelchair user is usually to big and heavy to do this with, let alone being totally ur dignified. This seems to be a very big problem in London especially. We all need to share the space and make life better for everyone. Be flexible.

Undignified that should read s

With all 4 my ds I found it easier to go shopping by bus rather than the hassle of finding a parking space etc. I never used a buggy on the bus. I took the buggy folded and the baby in a sling. That way I was never not allowed on the bus. It also saved hassle if others wanted to get on.

Rainbow keyboard got a mind of its own?

OP YANBU Wheelchair users get priority everytime. I do hope you get someone to listen to you and do something about this.

Trickle there is a man in a wheelchair that uses my bus and he is one who can push his wheelchair on/off the bus so long as the bus drivers are close enough to the kerb. There is also another man who has a motorised wheelchair who does need the ramp. Luckily our bus drivers do seem enlightened enough to realise this.

Our bus service seems to be one of the least profitable in our town and the newer buses seem to be introduced on the more profitable routes and filter down to us, eventually. Unfortunately this means that we still get the buses with steps on our route. I remember once waiting for a bus at the same time as the second man. When it came it was one with steps, I got on but of course he couldn't. It must have been running late because when I got off at the other end a second one had pulled up behind us and that also had steps. I hate to think how long he ended up waiting

If the bus driver didn't let your son on, he wasn't just breaking TfL rules, he was breaking the law. The Disability Discrimination Act says you have to make equal provision for people with disabilities. Did your son's carer get any details about the driver that would help identify him? I'd guess that the company would want to reprimand him and make it clear what their policy is (and indeed what the law is).

I'm not convinced that act on its own breaks the law. Service providers have to make their service accessible to disabled people inc wheelchair users. I don't think that is the same as saying you are guaranteed a space on the first bus that comes.

No idea why the driver didn't ask the buggy users to move though, he could definitely do with some disability awareness training!

Iggi it is breaking the law. They have to provide the service unless they can reasonable justify why they haven't. The bus being totally packed and full to capacity would be a reasonable justification. The bus having no wheelchair space because they are in the process of updating them and can show that this is indeed happening would be a reasonable justification. Plenty of space, unfolded prams and not bothering to ask for them to be folded is not reasonable justifiable therefore it is unlawful.

Fair point.

This thread makes me a bit worried! My 4 year old ds has cerebral palsy and cannot walk unaided. If I take the bus with him he will be in his Size 2 Mountain Buggy (A special buggy suitable for upto age 7/8 - but looks just like a chunky 3 wheeler). When he's in it he doesn't look disabled. But I can't put him on his feet to fold the buggy. So far we've always been ok on the bus and the train.

I think the idea of printing off TfL's rules is a good one.

Positive discrimination towards the disabled? Have you seen the state of some anti disability threads on MN recently. The disabled are apparently one of the few factions of society that still get abused on a regular basis. Worst of all, it still seems acceptable to the majority of public.

OP, I hope your DS wasn't too upset but please continue to complain and use the legislation and bus policies to argue your case.

Did you post which route it was?

I regularly get the bus in London (every day in fact to work) and I've often seen wheelchairs on the bus.

I would be bloody fuming had I been on that bus that didn't let him on. I really hope one of the passengers complained about the driver. You might find that they did.

Poor ds and the carer. I hope it doesn't put them off travelling as I'm sure the majority of bus drivers are considerate.

You need buses like our local ones - was pleasantly surprised the other day. Woman waiting at stop with child in buggy, bus stops, driver gets out. Woman takes child on to bus, driver carries bags into storage space then folds up buggy and hangs it on hooks on front of bus. When her stop came up, the driver took the buggy off the hooks and put it back up then while she was settling her child in he carried the bags back out for her.

Whole thing took maybe 1-2 minutes extra than someone without buggy so didn't impact on schedule at all and was probably faster than her trying to manoevre everything on herself.

All local buses have these hooks on - never knew what they were for before! Maybe suggest it in your email - it should be a simple (ie cheap) thing to fix on to buses in service already.

(AIBU to admit that when I saw this, the first thing I thought of were the bus/buggy threads on mumsnet?!)