To be very very angry? (Disabled DS denied wheelchair space on bus - again)

[LifeHope11]

DS (11y) was about to get on the bus with his carer but the driver refused to let them on....shook his head and said 'sorry you can't get on, there are two prams in the space' and then shut the doors and drove off.

DH & I are both livid, this is not the first time this has happened.

DH complained to the bus company.....the first person he spoke to claimed that if there are 2 prams on board they take priority over a wheelchair! That was news to us, and appears to contradict the notices on the wheelchair spaces on the buses which states that priority is given to wheelchairs and anyone else in the space must give way etc. DH refused to accept this response & demanded to speak to a manager who gave him a case number. So we are waiting to hear more.

i feel that our DS has been discriminated against and denied his right to travel freely. Just to be sure, we don't blame the owners of the buggies on the bus....they were never even asked to move & probably were not aware of anything. But I don't want this kind of treatment of the disabled to be acceptable any more and I want things to change.

WTF? I do think this was driver error. Saying that, I do think that being a driver must be highly stressful (not that that excuses this, OP)

Now I by NO means think prams take priority over wheelchairs. But I was just thinking about what the bus company said when you rang them - that the prams have an equal status essentially.
Could that be because the 2010 Equality Act has maternity/pregnancy as a protected status and they've brought in some ill thought out policies? Because I can't think of any other reason why buggies would trump wheelchair.

Thanks all for your comments. I am heartened to have so much support and that most of you seem to agree (with only one exception) that the treatment my DS received is unacceptable.

We are already firing off emails to all and sundry about this... have really just had enough now. No discrimination against any other minority group would be acceptable, why is discrimination against the disabled deemed OK? Because it IS discrimination in my view....DS freedom to travel and access public spaces is severely restricted by this kind of treatment, I want his rights to be very firmly upheld.

I would also like to point out that DS carer was severely distressed, enough to call us....we are worried that this will put him off taking DS out & about in future. What if he decides it is all too much hassle? It is hard to find good and trustworthy people who are willing, able and confident to care for the disabled. We need these helpers so that we, as well as DS, can have a life.

So I feel like raising merry hell about this and demanding that attitudes change.

I haven't read all the responses but surely to give priority to one group is to positively discriminate - how much do we do this to combat peoples disadvantages? Buggies aren't there as a favour - they pay for a service just like anyone else. And I don't buy that you can just fold it - sure some people can but what about eg.women post c section, those with newborn twins, back problems or other physical issues, toddler and heavily pregnant etc etc. Wheelchairs can't be folded but unless the buses are once an hour i don't get why waiting is a problem.
It's not discriminating if you apply the same rule to everyone.

Mushroom it is a choice to have a child. It is not a choice to be disabled.

LifeHope11 you can demand that attitudes change as much as you like, but experience tells me that it'll make little difference. The sad fact is that money speaks louder. I was discrimated against by a large, very well known organisation who should have known better. They refused to accept that their practise was wrong and refused to make changes. So I went through the Equalities and Human Rights Commission and began legal proceeding against them. It hit their wallets and, strangely enough, they then couldn't make the changes fast enough.

i just want to add, that i may have on threads wrote about how difficult it can be to fold a pram with 3 kids and shopping etc, and how a service provider should cater for the needs of its users etc,

but that doesnt mean i wouldnt happily fold my pushchair for a wheelchair, and i wouldnt expect to. I use a stroller and even if i see someone with small baby in pushchair etc needs the space i would fold my stroller and take my baby out. its all about helping each other.

Also there has been very few times i can actualy remember a wheelchair getting on the bus tbh. The last time i remember it was a middleaged guy, and i started folding puschair and he told me not to bother, it was one of them lightweight type wheel chairs, even though i was trying to insist i would fold the pushchair.

he must of thought it would be easier for him to fit his wheelchair in the space next to my puschair then me to fold my puschair, sort out my shopping bags, lifting baby etc so he could position his wheelchair against backrest in proper way.

its all about compassion and understanding of others needs.

off topic today i needed to get on the bus, the bus driver opened the door and said no, i said i would fold my pushchair, my 20 mnth, 3 and 5 year olds got on the bus and me holding pushchair then he drove off very quickly, as soon as i got on,before they were sitting down or i had put puschair down, obviously the 20 mnth old fell over and whacked his head, then i put the pushchair in the wheelchair space, opened it and put the 20 mnth old in. there was a phil and teds in the other space closer to seats, but the space between that and stairs was empty.it seemed a bit silly to me.

It's not discriminating if you apply the same rule to everyone.

Yes it is. Equality is NOT treating everyone equally. It's treating people differently so that everyone has and equal opportunity. That is the cornerstone of equality, not doing so is discrimination.

When mine were in buggies, you had to fold them to go on a Routemaster bus - there was no space for pushchairs. But no room for wheelchairs either. I think they should insist that all buggies be folded, and the wheelchair space be used for the purpose intended.

oops i meant would expect too not wouldnt!!

Well said Kladdkaka .

YANBU, and I hope you get a good result from your complaints.

I know on our local buses there is a bay on one side for buggies and the other for wheelchairs, so I don't know why all buses can't be like this, although frequently both bays are used by pushchairs as there are many more of them than wheelchair users for now. Having said that, I did have one occasion when I had the [unfoldable] monster pushchair in the wheelchair bay because the buggy bay was occupied, and I just had to get off when a wheelchair user wanted to get on. I didn't wait to be asked as I'd figured it was always possibly going to happen during the time I had that pushchair and I'm very grateful it only happened the once, in about a year and a half. (DD outdrew the compact Graco otherwise I would never have used such a big pushchair.)

Probably cross posted loads as have just scrolled to the bottom to post.

I do not believe at all that prams take priority over a wheelchair, I'm a mum who regularly travels on the bus, and I have gotten off buses in the past to allow wheelchair users to get on the bus, as I haven't been able to fold my pram as its a) too bulky b) and id rather get off and walk with the pram than wrestle with a fidgety 9 month old dd!

Mushroom - the space has been added to buses to allow people who need wheelchairs, through no choice of their own, to be able to get on a bus at all. The space has not been added as a space for buggies at all. The majority of buggy users can fold.

Buggy users can use any other seat on the bus. There is 1 wheelchair space.

Waiting can also cause alot of problems. An example, as a wheelchair user there are many train rides you need to book 24 hours in advance. If you cannot get on the bus, and miss the train, you cannot travel for another 24 hours.

In addition, the number of buggies on buses outnumber the number of wheelchairs hugely. Round here it is rare not to have a buggy in the wheel chair space. If buggies do not have to be moved then wheelchair users would rarely get to use the bus.

Wheelchairs used to not be able to get on the bus at all, however people still managed to take children on. As such it is possible to use buses with children, without needing the wheelspace. However wheelchair uses can only use the bus, with the space.

That's absolutely ridiculous OP

If I hadn't read Mushroom's ignorance I would have had trouble believing it happened!

Please fight this all the way...with the Bus Company and publicise it as much as you can.

These spaces were made for wheelchair users, but because there are so few of them compared to parents with buggies...the parents are given the spaces to use only if they're not needed by wheelchair users.

Some of us are old enough to remember when everyone had to fold their buggies to get on the bus...no-one died.

So why haven't you read the thread Mushroom?

There are plenty of responses to your first ignorant post that shoukd have enabled you to post a second enlightened one instead of the a possibly MORE ignorant one!

I remember when dc2 was 3 weeks old I had to go to a hospital apt for dc1 who was just turned 3 at the time. The bus pulled up at a stop and there were 2 wheelchair users waiting. It was pouring with the rain and the driver came and asked if I would collapse my pram as he wanted to squeeze them both on. He even held the baby whilst I did so lol!

I had no hesitation in doing so at all and thought the driver had an amazing attitude. Most of the time they just seem to want to get the route done without any hassle.

It's tricky, handling a buggy with multiple children post-birth, but it is not a lifetime condition. Nor is it IMPOSSIBLE to find alternative solutions for a temporary period of time.

Mushroom My 15 year old, wheelchair using daughter suggests you try it for a day. Failing that she says: 'Fuck off, you arrogant moron, actually positive discrimination is essential, and in case you hadn't noticed, the buses state that those spaces are for wheelchair users. That works out as positively discriminating".

Don't understand why you are all engaging with this Mushroom character?

Meant to say YANBU at all. I was able to quickly collapse my pram without too much bother, your son has no choice over whether he uses the wheelchair and should therefore have priority IMO.

yanbu
shame on the coward of a bus driver

Mushroom - the difference is that you, with your two working arms and legs can stand up, fold up your child's buggy, store it and pop your child on your knee on a seat further back. The person in the wheelchair doesn't have that luxury.

Your attitude stinks.

Mushroom, it is not 'positive discrimination' to make adjustments to overcome the disadvantages faced by a minority group...that is the purpose of anti discrimination legislation. Treating everyone the same means in practice that vulnerable groups such as the disabled are disadvantaged....and you think that is acceptable?

I think all disabled or vulnerable people should receive support so pregnant women, those with back problems etc should be offered seats on the bus just as my DS should be treated with consideration. However as you believe 'the same rule should apply to everyone' you should surely be in favour of making them stand? You are inconsistent.

The buses get very busy round where we live and generally every bus has at least one buggy on board. If my DS right to a wheelchair space is not upheld, he could end up waiting a very long time....there are far far more buggies than there are wheelchairs. Do you think that is acceptable? You may 'not get why waiting is a problem' but my DS and I have first hand experience of waiting and I would beg to differ.

I don't think I want to argue this any more, it is tiring. Either you want a civilised society where vulnerable people are suppoeted and their rights upheld or you don't. If the latter, then there is nothing to discuss.