To be very very angry? (Disabled DS denied wheelchair space on bus - again)

[LifeHope11]

DS (11y) was about to get on the bus with his carer but the driver refused to let them on....shook his head and said 'sorry you can't get on, there are two prams in the space' and then shut the doors and drove off.

DH & I are both livid, this is not the first time this has happened.

DH complained to the bus company.....the first person he spoke to claimed that if there are 2 prams on board they take priority over a wheelchair! That was news to us, and appears to contradict the notices on the wheelchair spaces on the buses which states that priority is given to wheelchairs and anyone else in the space must give way etc. DH refused to accept this response & demanded to speak to a manager who gave him a case number. So we are waiting to hear more.

i feel that our DS has been discriminated against and denied his right to travel freely. Just to be sure, we don't blame the owners of the buggies on the bus....they were never even asked to move & probably were not aware of anything. But I don't want this kind of treatment of the disabled to be acceptable any more and I want things to change.

I don't for one second believe that people who are disabled should have to wait in this circumstance but I don't like this "people choose to have children but don't choose to be disabled" attitude either.

I would be mortified to think that someone in a wheelchair had had to wait on my behalf but as someone who had severe PND and OCD post-dc and a STUPID buggy bought by MIL that was unfoldable for me as I had a seriously slow recovery from a traumatic birth, I will say that it's not always as easy to say point blank that someone should just get off the bus if they can't fold.

I chose to have a child. I didn't choose that it would make me physically and mentally unwell and I was so preoccupied in those first few months on the rare occasions I actually left the house I probably wouldn't even have seen a wheelchair user waiting or responded in any normal way.

It's easy to judge but no one would have had one clue of the torment I had going on in my head for those months, that actually was pretty disabling. The fact that I have been able to resume functionality with treatment (though not entirely, and I will always have OCD it's just that I will hopefully one day have it under control) and that sadly for many people disability is lifelong doesn't change the fact that there have been times that getting off a bus would have been extremely hard for me to do.

There are rude, lazy f**kers in the world, it's true. And probably most of them who won't fold fall into this category and are not like me, and most probably the situation the OP describes is actually more down to the bus driver not wanting "the hassle" of doing his job properly than the parents on that bus at that time.. but just thought I'd throw in a different perspective.

someone tell fungus that there is only one space on every bus for a wheelchair.
only one

Wheelchairs used to not be able to get on the bus at all, however people still managed to take children on.

Quite. I was wondering, how did my mother used to manage? No wheelchair spaces, and whatever the pushchair may have been it was way before McClaren! But bus was how we traveled. We probably had to walk on our own two feet from an earlier age and longer distances than is typical now.

Not strictly a disabled story but,

My DH is a bus driver (a nice one! ) and he got an earful and a complaint made about him from a mum with a pushchair recently.

The bus had only one space for a wheelchair/pushchair and she was the second pushchair to get on. He told her she would have to fold it. She kicked off, shouting at him. Then stormed off to the office to make a complaint about him (I very much doubt his work will back him up either) All the passengers that got on were telling my DH it was disgusting behaviour from him and that DH should be ashamed of himself.

I think the fact that some drivers let 300 buggies get on and others stick to the rules confuses everybody and people get angry when they don't 'get their way'.

Still, what a terrible treatment you received, OP.

Thunk, I don't disagree with you entirely, and the legislation isn't perfect, but unfortunately it has to exist because of people like Mushroom and the bus driver. And I think it is right that it does.

I had a similar problem in that. Had a disabled child in a buggy plus a baby in a sling. His disability was not only hidden to most, it was hidden to me. All I knew was that I COULD NOT manage if he were to be let out of his buggy. I didn't at that stage know why.

There are grey areas. However it just won't work for individuals to decide them, otherwise you'll have people justifying their own priority with sometimes outrageous explanations.

I think that is awful, and its never happened to me in those type of circumstances, as our buses two prams can fit on one side and a wheelchair on the other, if you see what i mean.

However, i think the whole busses/prams/wheelchairs situation is awful any way. Heaven forbid anyone try and use a bus to get to work with a child to drop off at nursery/school.

The pram that I've got at the moment, doesn't fold up. When i say that i mean literally it just won't do it. Its very badly designed and expensive. I've never had to get off a bus because of a wheelchair user, but of course i would if need be.

The other mushroom is being very silly. It's twats like this who actually cause situations similar to the ops.
Op definately complain, we have a 10yr old ds who uses a wheelchair and this has happened to us before although in our case it was because the parents refused to move their likkle precious's buggy.
I have to say thank goodness that the vast mast majority of people go out of their way to help us, hope karma does'nt come and bite you on the arse other mushroom

Oh Starshit, I don't mean it needs to be left to individuals.. In the OP's shoes I would complain and I would see it as the bus driver's responsibility primarily, and really do suspect it was laziness on his part/not wanting to deal with it. I'm just saying that sometimes when people look panicky about moving it's not just selfish intransigence.... I hate the way public transport is just a minefield of judgement.

From the Transport for London page regarding London buses and wheelchair access: "Wheelchair users have priority over everyone else for use of the wheelchair space. If someone in a wheelchair wishes to board, and the wheelchair space is occupied by standing passengers or buggies, standing passengers will be asked by the driver to make room if possible, buggy owners will be asked to fold them and put them in the luggage space or keep them by their side."

Mushroom, irrespective of what you think (which we all agree is ridiculous and ignorant) this is the rule.

The driver should have asked them to fold, definitely agree you need to contact everyone about this. The specs also clearly state wheelchair users have priority and buggies can use it if free.

thunk, I want to say I appreciate your post. I know that sometimes people face difficulties that are not apparent on the surface; just as some disabilities are not as apparent as others. I do understand how debilitating a traumatic birth can be having gone through this myself. I know that no regulations are foolproof because some people are vulnerable in ways that are not apparent; sometimes it is necessary to ask for the support that is needed.

A lot of this is about having consideration for other people. I am so conscious now of how important it is that vulnerable people are accommodated on public transport that if an elderly/disabled person gets on a bus when I am travelling alone and sitting down, I am instantly out of my seat. I don't wait to be asked or even to offer; I am gone so that they can sit down. I have learned the hard way how much this kind of consideration matters. Likewise if I am travelling with DS in wheelchair and a parent with buggy gets on, I will try to make space for the buggy wherever possible.

I appreciate it is hard to make space or move if you have a large/cumbersome buggy. But as a general rule I would hope that a parent expecting to travel frequently on the buses should ge a light, easily foldable buggy. Again, it is all about consideration.

Terrible! The bus company will clearly be able to identify the driver from the time you were refused access I would complain big time about him and then continue to access his bus at various times to see if he lets your DS on. You should get some of the mumsnetters to board his bus on mass with buggies before reaching your stop! Every day He will have a nervous breakdown!

Nailak said it in a nutshell

its all about compassion and understanding of others needs

OP, perhaps you should print out those TfL regs (pref from their own page) so that you or your DSs carer can brandish it at anyone who doesn't know the rules.

Oh FFS, Mushroom, do try to develop a little understanding.

It is not positive discrimination - it is positive treatment to ensure that those with mobility issues have some chance of operating in society with something approaching the level of ease that those without disabilities take for granted.

Parenting is not a disability.

If you think it is positive discrimination, that suggests that those with disabilities are getting something special that the rest of us don't have - not just getting an outside chance at getting on a bus without having to sit there all bloody day because every bus has a pram on it.

You have royally pissed me off because I am thoroughly fed up of reading the same old arguments again and again from those too self-centred to even try to figure out why we have the rules we have, and too wrapped up in their own affairs to want to abide by those rules.

I would love to ignore Mushroom's 'contributions' as some of you have suggested, but unfortunately attitudes such as his/hers are alive and kicking disabled people like my DS around wherever we go. I have just had enough.

a wheelchair space is just that it is for a wheelchair
it doesn't matter why a buggy/person is in it, it is the one space on a bus with loads of other seats that a wheelchair can use, it should always be vacated for a wheelchair.
I don't take my dd on a bus, I couldn't be arsed with all this, or the distress caused to her if she couldn't board because off a buggy being in the space.
I could explain it if it was a wheelchair, but how the hell do you explain that no you can't board the bus because the driver won't ask the person to move/the parent won't move the buggy?
I have also been through the taking a disabled baby on the bus in a buggy. would have been a nightmare to fold her then massive sn buggy. but I would have had ot do it as it was not a wheelchair

Thanks MrsHercule for quoting the rules. I just think they should be consistently enforced, because if they are not then there is no point having them.

Mushroom, the problem is that there are so many pushchairs a wheelchair user might have to wait several buses before one came along with free space. Buggy users should move.

YANBU, I could not lift my 11yo DD if she was immobile however I could lift my 1 yo niece to get onto a bus if the situation required and fold down her pushchair.

startthefansplease: thanks for your message of concern about DS. He was sad and tearful when the bus drove off because he does enjoy his bus journeys. But he is by far the happiest person I know and was soon chirpy again when another bus came along.

As previously mentioned I was very concerned about DS carer also, as he was very upset. I am just so scared he will be put off by this....good carers are hard to come by. It is not easy to find people who are willing, competent, caring and trustworthy enough to look after a wheelchair-bound child, incontinent and with learning difficulties. Even family members can't look after him; without such carers we would be stuffed & if they encounter difficulties like this they may decide it is more trouble than it is worth. Do you understand where I am coming from?

I dont have anything useful to say. That just sucks utterly.

I am grateful that MN has taught me about some of the problems that people with disabilities face so that I will never be the selfish push chair mum and I hope I will be the yelling at the bus driver and complaining mum if I ever witness this kind of thing in person.

YANBU

Bloody friffing buggies.

For those talking about positive discrimination, it is acceptable to positively disriminate in favour of disabled people.
I don't think it's useful to start being anti-buggies/babies though, in this case OP made it clear they weren't even asked.
I have wondered though, if a bus was actually full (ie at whatever the max amount of people was) and a wheelchair user wanted on, would they get someone else to get off?