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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to expect parents to be able to control their kids in the street, and to expect the police to do something about another child assaulting my dd

88 replies

Sleepflower777 · 07/04/2012 21:18

Name changed for this!

We're having ongoing trouble with a family in our street. I know kids fight and fall out, but this goes beyond that I think.

All the kids in our street play on the communal grassy area at the end of the cul-de-sac (across from my house so I can see what goes on from my living room window). There are fallings outs and sometimes fights, but it's usually dealt with reasonably. However, a few years ago another family moved in further up the hill and their child has been constantly bullying mine.

They are the same ages (8/9) and it started out with this other girl calling my dd names etc, which although she was upset with, we told her not to worry, ignore it etc etc. This then progressed to hitting, throwing stones, on one occassion she threw bricks at my children's heads (also have ds 5), it is a constant onslaught. In the first instance I went to this child's parents, but got verbal abuse. Every time my kids are out, down this other child comes and starts hitting, spitting, throwing stones etc. I don't let my kids play up her end of the street to try and avoid her, but she comes down this end, even as far as sitting on my front wall swearing & spitting at my dd, and when I go out to tell her to go away she tells me the police have told her she can go anywhere she wants!

I even resorted to keeping my kids in, going out to the park etc to avoid the confrontations, but then my kids feel like they are being punished when they haven't done anything wrong, plus it then means they don't get to play with the other kids in the street. Our own garden is tiny so they can't even play properly in there, or that would be an option.

I've even caught this other child climbing over the fence into our garden and ripping plants out etc.

We have phoned the police regarding the more serious instances, but each time they tell us there's not really much they can do - they say as the street is a public area they cannot tell this child she can't come down to the front of my house.

I have had abuse from the parents as well. One instance the mother came to my door shouting and threatened to "sort me out". Another incident last year I witnessed both the parents chasing a 5yr old boy down the street and the woman slapped this child across the face. They then came banging on my door threatening me. The police did try to charge them over this but it came to nothing.

Today this child crept up on my dd and whacked her with a stick, then when my dd turned round she punched her in the face. The police are coming to see me tomorrow, but I expect it will be the usual "can't do anything".

They are housing association tenants, but even the HA is bloody useless. AIBU in thinking that we shouldn't have to put up with this? We only want to be left in peace and for our kids to play outside without being assaulted! This child is out of control - it's obvious her parents can't control her, so shouldn't the police be doing something?!

Am I over-reacting? What would you do??

OP posts:
Sleepflower777 · 24/04/2012 20:12

Thanks for all the replies. It helps just to let off steam here, but the support is great!

OK, so do you think it would be reasonable to write to the HA with a list of all incidents and incident nos (although they already have these, but I don't think they think it is serious - the HO still seems to think this is just an issue about kids fighting, and seems to think it is a simple issue to be resolved by sitting round a table). I was thinking along the lines of a letter stating that this is more than just kids fighting, this is about the adults harrassing vulnerable people, they are in breach of their tenancy, they have a written warning, what are you (the HA) going to do about it? Why are you allowing these tenants to get away with this behaviour?

Should I also e-mail the housing officer and ask for a copy of their anti-social behaviour policy, tenancy agreement, complaints procedure? Should I ask about any complaints made against me? Should I copy in the council ASBO people?

Depending on how the HA deal with this, should I then copy in my local councillor / MSP?

DP is raging at it all, and thinks we should just tell them to f off as they are useless, but my point is we should give them a final chance and then take it further if need be? Or is he right and it's all a waste of time anyway?!

OP posts:
glenthebattleostrich · 24/04/2012 20:37

Contact your local councillor, forward them copies of everything you have given to the HO. Request a meeting, preferably at your home when the child is likely to be playing out so they have a chance to see the behaviour first hand. Any copy them in on everything from now on.

If you get no joy there escillate to your MP. Phone the housing officer (try to get their mobile number if you can) and call at every small incident. Same with the police. Follow everything up by email and copy in the superiors of the people you speak to.

I'd also email the head of the council / HA direct and tell them of the problems you are having.

And I would refuse mediation on the grounds there has already been police involvement because of threatening behaviour towards you.

Good luck

bejeezus · 24/04/2012 20:54

I would wait until the husband wasn't around, then I'd have that women up against a wall by her neck, and make it very clear to her that if she so much as looks at me or mine again, I'd rip her head off

bejeezus · 24/04/2012 20:55

Could you take her OP?

Coconutty · 24/04/2012 20:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Coconutty · 24/04/2012 20:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

rhondajean · 24/04/2012 21:01

Sleep I am a bit involved in the HA sector in Scotland. The mediation is a first step which they will use; if it doesnt resolve the issue it doesnt mean they will leave it there.

Are you also an HA tenant? If you have had complaints made about you?

It is very difficult for housing officers as they arent there at the time and their job is try to get everyone to settle down and behave decently in their tenancies. Help them out by keeping recording and reporting everything for them.

You are perfectly entitled to make a complaint btw.

hmc · 24/04/2012 21:07

I would play dirty.... an anonymous pizza delivery campaign, eggs and flour on their car etc....so they suspect it is you but can't be sure....and consequently call their child off because they can't be doing with the hassle.....this would be outside my comfort zone, but I don't see this brutish family responding to anything else.

duckdodgers · 24/04/2012 21:13

sleepflower you have my deepest thoughts and sympathies here, we are currently going through similar, except the boy is 10 who is bullying and harassing our son who's also 10. We have had him charged with assaulting our son and the case is due to go to the children's panel soon - we are in Scotland and yes the age of criminal responsibility is 8.

This boy is out of control - Mum very nice but since he also assaults her she is scared of him yet is very defensive of him - its everyone else who is picking on her boy according to her. Police initially weren't great but we have a liaison officer we contact now who is good, plus we record everything. Tonight for example we have phoned the Police 4 times for 4 separate incidents, both in the street e.g he jumped in front of my DHs car and shouted that he had tried to run him down, plus he has swore at my DH who was only out in our back garden, All minor incidents bit they all add up.

1 good bit of advice we had today from a solicitor we went and saw was that we have the right to write to the children's panel with our views, which Im doing tonight.

Our local council has logged our complaints but nothing has changed - solicitor also advised us to write a letter of complaint to the Director of Housing as it then has to be addressed by them. Good luck!!

Panda1234 · 24/04/2012 21:22

Agree with Rhona.

If HAs have two tenants both complaining about each other, then it's impossible for them to say who is in the right. And I know you think you're in the right, but then, your neighbours probably think the same, however unreasonably. Your HA is probably offering mediation to see if they can resolve things without them getting any worse.

It would be worth asking about the mediation route further, even if you don't agree to it. For example, find out if your neighbours have indicated they'd do it, find out what the HA is hoping to achieve and so on, and what happens if you do and don't agree. It won't cost you anything to ask.

Failing that, try to get a copy of the HA complaints procedure. There are usually different levels of complaint. You can continually ask for your complaint to be escalated through the system if you're not happy with the response at any stage.

Stick to one or two key points with your complaint - them threatening you and your DD, in other words. If you start bringing in their behaviour towards third parties then it gets more and more complicated. Anyway, your HA can only keep your informed about complaints that directly affect you.

It's not like you can just tell the HA to 'f off' either - at the end of the day, you're stuck with the antisocial tenants until the HA evict them. So you're going to have to keep on at them until either the tenants are gone or have stopped their bad behaviour.

Sleepflower777 · 24/04/2012 21:46

Bejeezus - lol!

Thanks everyone, but sad to see others have similar problems!

I know the HA have to be impartial and see both parties pov, but my point is I have 3 yrs worth of police complaints about them, incident nos, they were even charged and given a written warning - that's some amount of evidence about what they are like. I am in no doubt that this family will now try and twist things and say my children are bullying their dd, I'm threatening them etc etc, but my point is - where is their evidence for this? The only thing was the incident the other week when the man threatened the kids from the refuge, but police told me he'd called them to complain about me. I have no idea what, if any, complaints they have made to the HA about me - I was assuming this was the incident the HO referred to, but I also thought if any complaints had been made about me then they'd have come to let me know? I know that every time I've complained about this family's behaviour that the HO has gone to speak to them.

I'm just so utterly fed up with it all.

OP posts:
frumpet · 24/04/2012 22:29

Do everything sane and reasonable that other posters have suggested then get a hosepipe and everytime this child comes down your end 'accidently' get her wet , its no fun being wet , its an obvious accident , its not assault and it shows her you mean business when it comes to your children.
I suggest getting an attachment with a variety of jets , and set it to soaker , not so harsh that it could cause damage if it went in her face but strong enough for a thorough soaking . I would be tempted to do the same to the parents if they arrive too , but probably wouldnt be brave enough Grin

Sleepflower777 · 24/04/2012 22:45

Oh frumpet, you have no idea!

This all started years ago with kids at my house having a water fight in the summer. This child kept grabbing water guns off other kids and soaking everyone, even tiny toddlers who were crying, but she kept saying she wasn't allowed soaked and shouting at everyone if they dared to try and soak her. I told her to go away then if she wasn't allowed wet and to stop soaking others if she wasn't joining in. She just ignored me and kept grabbing guns. My elder ds then got a bucket of water and threw it over her as he was so fed up with her. Well, she went running up to her house and next thing I had the dad at my door shouting & swearing and telling me to get my ds to f-ing well do what he's told!

But yes, v tempted by the hosepipe idea lol!

OP posts:
thedogsrolex · 24/04/2012 22:55

I really feel for you op, we've had years of hell from a similiar family. My ds just stopped going out in the end. Dd isn't allowed in the street on her own yet but the kid would come into our garden to try and punch her. Telling him off just made it worse..now he makes a beeline for us if we walk past to the shops etc. Spitting, swearing. He has jumped in front of the car several times too, nearly caused an accident then laughed at us. I'm dreading the summer holidays.

Sleepflower777 · 25/04/2012 10:33

Oh FFS! Today I got a letter from the HA:

"I can confirm that I have discussed the incidents reported with your neighbour and they have made counter allegations. At this stage neither version of events has been corroborated by the police. Although the police report confirms the calls that you made, it states that it is an on-going issue and that advice was given to both parties. It also states that visits would be made to both by the local community police officer to try and resolve the issue. There is therefore no further action that the HA can take on this matter at this time. I would however suggest that you consider attending a mediation session with your neighbour to work towards a solution."

What the fuck?! No further action they can take on this matter?! They are taking the piss!

btw, the community officer did come out to see me and said to have no dealings with this family, do not confront them, do not open door to them, report every incident and get the HA involved!

What do you suggest I do now?

OP posts:
bejeezus · 25/04/2012 10:58

Joking aside, I think you DO need to go on the offensive, rather than the defensive

Try hammering her door at 12am and giving her an ear full

glenthebattleostrich · 25/04/2012 11:09

You need to write to the Director of the HA stating that the letter is wrong and that because of the intimidating behaviour you will not attend mediation.

Enclose copies of everything you have to back up your side and ask them to provide evidence of any allegations against you.

Copy the letter to your local councillor and ask for a reply from both within 7 days.

Sleepflower777 · 25/04/2012 11:23

I think Bejeezus has the right idea - should have dealt with it that way years ago!

Well, I phoned the council's ASBO line, as I was going to copy them in on it all (and the police had given me their no) - they said if it was threatening behaviour then it was a police matter, and anyway wouldn't get involved as it was HA. The police say it's not a police matter, it's for the council and HA. The HA say they can do fuck all! Aargh!! Someone take some fucking responsibility please!! I bet if I did go up and ransack them and their house, then they'd all act!!

I'm going to e-mail the housing officer and say I'm dismayed at her letter. Ask for details of allegations against me & evidence. State that community officers told me to log everything and report to police & HA which I have done for past 3 bloody years. State that it's not just an issue about kids fighting, that it's serious incidents of threatening behaviour, including incident last year when they were charged (and the HA already know about this incident). State why mediation is not appropriate. Ask for copy of anti-social behaviour policy and complaints procedure. Say I am seeking advice from other parties (should I go to CAB? Solicitor?) State that I am astonished she says no further action can be taken, and advise that I will be sending a letter today with full details of every incident, and hope she can then assist. Sound ok?

OP posts:
bejeezus · 25/04/2012 12:19

could you provoke her into thumping you, do you think?
Then the rozzers would get involved

Sleepflower777 · 25/04/2012 12:39

Well, she thumped a child and look how much action was taken over that!

Absolutely fuming and fucking disgusted that no-one seems to be doing anything about this family. Really starting to think IABU or imagining the whole lot. Feel like I'm going off my head here!

OP posts:
bejeezus · 25/04/2012 12:46

would it be quicker and easier to ask to be transferred to another house??? (have no idea how HA works)

hmc · 25/04/2012 13:19

Oh sleepflower - you poor thing. Incredibly frustrating. I think the actions you propose seem very sensible, I hope you get a breakthrough

LeQueen · 25/04/2012 13:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

glenthebattleostrich · 25/04/2012 16:02

If you do write to the housing officer, please copy in her superiors, local councillors, your MSP and the chief of police. Unfortunately often the way to get people to take ownership is to harrass those at the top.

Also yes to getting your local paper involved. My friend used to write for a local rag and they love a story like this.

gettinghappy · 25/04/2012 16:14

Hi, Haven't had a chance to rewd everything after your update, when the police had come ot see you.

I would suggest next time she is raving and banging on your door, you calmly pick up the phone and phone the police, tell them she is threatening you adn you are scared..........wait til they come and move her on. !