AIBU to expect parents to be able to control their kids in the street, and to expect the police to do something about another child assaulting my dd

[Sleepflower777]

Name changed for this!

We're having ongoing trouble with a family in our street. I know kids fight and fall out, but this goes beyond that I think.

All the kids in our street play on the communal grassy area at the end of the cul-de-sac (across from my house so I can see what goes on from my living room window). There are fallings outs and sometimes fights, but it's usually dealt with reasonably. However, a few years ago another family moved in further up the hill and their child has been constantly bullying mine.

They are the same ages (8/9) and it started out with this other girl calling my dd names etc, which although she was upset with, we told her not to worry, ignore it etc etc. This then progressed to hitting, throwing stones, on one occassion she threw bricks at my children's heads (also have ds 5), it is a constant onslaught. In the first instance I went to this child's parents, but got verbal abuse. Every time my kids are out, down this other child comes and starts hitting, spitting, throwing stones etc. I don't let my kids play up her end of the street to try and avoid her, but she comes down this end, even as far as sitting on my front wall swearing & spitting at my dd, and when I go out to tell her to go away she tells me the police have told her she can go anywhere she wants!

I even resorted to keeping my kids in, going out to the park etc to avoid the confrontations, but then my kids feel like they are being punished when they haven't done anything wrong, plus it then means they don't get to play with the other kids in the street. Our own garden is tiny so they can't even play properly in there, or that would be an option.

I've even caught this other child climbing over the fence into our garden and ripping plants out etc.

We have phoned the police regarding the more serious instances, but each time they tell us there's not really much they can do - they say as the street is a public area they cannot tell this child she can't come down to the front of my house.

I have had abuse from the parents as well. One instance the mother came to my door shouting and threatened to "sort me out". Another incident last year I witnessed both the parents chasing a 5yr old boy down the street and the woman slapped this child across the face. They then came banging on my door threatening me. The police did try to charge them over this but it came to nothing.

Today this child crept up on my dd and whacked her with a stick, then when my dd turned round she punched her in the face. The police are coming to see me tomorrow, but I expect it will be the usual "can't do anything".

They are housing association tenants, but even the HA is bloody useless. AIBU in thinking that we shouldn't have to put up with this? We only want to be left in peace and for our kids to play outside without being assaulted! This child is out of control - it's obvious her parents can't control her, so shouldn't the police be doing something?!

Am I over-reacting? What would you do??

In that case OP I would go and sit in a police station and refuse to move until they take a statement and bug them until something is done.

HA is aware of what's been going on, and have apparently spoken to this family, not that it's done any good. Rumour on the street is that they got moved out of their previous street because of trouble with the neighbours (not sure if they were the cause of it or were hounded out). The HA have told us that there need to be more complaints from others in the street, i.e. we need backing up, which is so frustrating as we feel like we aren't being taken seriously and it's as if no-one is believing us. We also feel let down by our other neighbours who must see or hear some of this (and in fact witnessed me being threatened at my door), but don't back us up when the police ask.

I think Heswall is right - these people aren't afraid of the police or the HA because they know nothing will be done, it's really hard to evict them, they will still get their benefits & keep their house, the other neighbours won't back us up as they are afraid of them etc etc. Dp is now wishing we'd never phoned the police in the first place and he'd "sorted" it out himself, but then we'd be just as bad as them.

Rapidly coming to the conclusion that it would be better in the long run for us to move, but part of me thinks that's letting them "win", plus why should we have to move? We haven't done anything wrong! Crazy thing is this is in one of the nicer areas!

The worst bit is trying to explain to my children every time this girl assaults them, or even when I was threatened at the door or the other little boy hit by this woman, why the police can't / won't do anything. They're really losing faith in the police never mind me & dp.

Perhaps smaller house / rougher area would be best in the long run?

Heswall, yes, I really think I need to insist that they do something tomorrow. If I get fobbed off again, could I complain to a superior officer do you think? Fact is, it has all been recorded over the years, so could show we have been let down.

I'm just really angry and pissed off at all the time & energy I'm having to spend when really, I've got better things to be doing & worrying about - aarghh!!!

Update!

Police came out to see me, went over everything, they were shocked it had gone on so long etc etc (tbf, it was a bank holiday and these officers were from another area, so prob having a dig at their colleagues!), and went up to "have a word" with the neighbours. They weren't in so they left a card.

That night I had banging at my door at around 11pm - I was terrified, and it woke dd who looked out her wndow and identified the woman! This was later confirmed to me by another neighbour a few days later who commented "I see you had your "friend" at the door the other night!".

The next day the man from this house was shouting & threatening other kids in the street, saying he was going to "batter them" and to go and get their dad - these kids were from a women's refuge in our street, and it's well known what this house is! Reported this to the police, who came out but apparently the man had also phoned police to complain about me not letting their daughter down to play! I tried to explain to the officer about the incident I was complaining about re the man threatening kids from a vulnerable house, all the history etc, but the police was just like "kids fight, eh?" and I felt he wasn't taking the whole thing seriously! When I told dp what had happened he was furious and made a complaint to the police, and then the chief super got involved, said how the officer had dealt with me was wrong, he'd look into it etc etc

To be fair, the community officers did come out and went over everything, said they'd have a word with the family again, told me to keep reporting and recording and get HA involved as they'd be more of a threat. Turns out the man & woman got a written warning for incident last year re slapping the child and threatening me at the door.

So, (sorry for long saga!), I contacted HA with list of incident nos, and today the housing officer phoned me to try and arrange mediation, and that sometimes "kids fight and we need to sit round the table and agree not to speak to each other" etc etc etc! I tried explaining that this wasn't about kids fighting, it was about adults behaving in a threatening manner (and it's not just me, this man has been at other women's doors, shouting & swearing & threatening) etc etc, and I didn't feel sitting round a table with people who had assaulted a child and been at my door threatening to kill me, was appropriate. I said I just wanted to be left alone in peace but it was hard when my children were being assaulted all the time, and I had people coming to the door threatening me.

But AIBU?? I'm starting to think now that I'm over-reacting, as no-one seems to be taking this seriously! This woman on a number of occassions has been at my door threatening to "sort me out", and banging at the door threatening to kill me, with the man too (and one of these incidents resulted in them being charged with breach of the peace and a written warning). They have assaulted a child. They have been at other people's doors threatening them. The man threatened children in the street. And yet somehow the HA seem to think this is not a serious problem?! That they are happy with these kind of tenants. Surely they are in breach of a tenancy agreement? Do they really think this is just a minor issue to be dealt with by sitting round a table and discussing it? I've also found out that anotherneighbour (the one whose child was assaulted) has also complained to the HA about them.

Maybe this is just the done thing round here, to go to people's doors and shout & swear & threaten. I get the impression other neighbours think I am over-reacting by phoning the police all the time - they just seem to accept this behaviour as normal. Maybe IABU!

What would you do?

Anyone??

I would go to your local papers with your story.

Shame your ha into action as it sounds like they just can't be bothered which is shameful.

You and your family do not deserve to live in fear in your own home!

Makes my blood boil for you.

keep a diary of every incident. keep it detailed (exact time) who was involved etc.

get in touch with anti social behaviour officer.

everytime they bang on the door threatening phone 999.

Been through something very similar a few years ago. Eventually got it sorted. Sorry, in a rush now. But just wanted to say about the diary bit.

My kids play out in street and have done since 4 years or so we too live in a cul de sac and it is lovely all the kids meeting up. It must be awful if this pleasure is denied for your kids so get in contact as other posters suggested to relevent services if it really cannot be resolved. Any idea why child like this? Is it solely your child

God what a nightmare!!

I really feel for you. It seems like some kind of madness that these people should be allowed to inflict themselves on you like this.

I certainly hope you are able to resolve this in your favour!

I would consider the mediation. If they're completely unreasonable during the process, then that will strengthen your case (presumably you want them to be evicted if they don't improve their behaviour?). If you refuse to even try mediation then you start to look unreasonable, unfortunately.

I couldn't quite follow what exactly happened with the kids from the refuge. I think you were fair enough to complain about the bloke swearing at the time but try not to get too involved - don't start bringing up stuff that happened with third parties to the HA and police, concentrate on what's happened between them and you.

If you can't face mediation, then the other route to go down is to start getting harder with your HA. Find out what their official complaint route is. Don't just write to them to complain, ask them for a copy of their complaints and grievance process. Escalate your complaint through their system. You might also want to consider contacting your local councillors.

I agree with Panda, go to mediation..in fact, agree to anything the HA suggests as it will strengthen your case as Panda said. It waill also show you in a reasonable light. And give you chance to actually see how these nutters actually perceive the situation.

I have kept a diary with times, who was involved etc. I mentioned the kids from refuge as this was yet again this man picking on vulnerable people - me when I'm on my own, a heavily pg single woman and now a woman in a refuge and her family! You never see him arguing or threatening a house where there is a man! They are very careful who they target.

When I was on phone to housing officer earlier she said something like "obviously it's hard to get to the bottom of this as there's counter complaints", so I'm assuming this other family have complained about me! But surely if I've reported incidents to the police and have incident nos etc then that's a record of their behaviour. I've never had the police out to see me about a complaint against me or my family (apart from that incident the other week when I'd phoned to complain about the man). Surely if the HA have complaints about me then they are meant to contact me about what it is? Do I have a right to ask the HA about any complaints made against me?

I told dp and he is getting really angry & frustrated about the whole thing now. He says to just contact the HA and tell them to forget it and get his solicitor to deal with it (I think that might be over-reacting slightly though, and think I should still send the letter detailing everything). However, I do still think that the HA can't be arsed sorting this out. Should we get our councillor involved, or our MP / MSP? Go to CAB??

omg I feel for you. we have 5 years of hell form what i call the shits up the road, our house was egged so many times it now has stains on the brickwork
we had the delight of a father trying to kick out front door in , the girl tried to hurt my dh, they threw stones at my dd(who is severely disabled) it was horrid.
in the end I just kept calling the police, every time anything happend.
IF you are threatened, phone the police and tell them you in fear of your life.
if the child hits your child, phone the police and report it as assault. do not speak to the child or the family. anything you say will be twisted and used against you.
ring SS and report the family.
see your doctor, as this is probably affecting your health,
keep photos of all injuries.
talk to others, find other people who will back you up.
and keep a record of all incidents.
and don't be lulled int feeling sorry for the child.
your child and your family comes first.

I would try mediation first. THENif no joy after that, go to CAB and MP.
Any third party will only ask you have you tried mediation and if you can say that yes you have they will more likely help you.
I would go in and visit someone at the top of the HA. See their website/manual for what they say on neighbour nuisance so you can quote their own policy to them.

oh and contact your MP, I did that and the police were suddenly more interested,

you do not have ot do mediation I refused and it still got sorted.

OK, I get that most people are saying to try mediation, but I am really, really uncomfortable with that idea. I just would not feel happy about sitting around a table with people who have been at my door in a threatening manner, and I don't really know what it would achieve. I think it has gone beyond a stage where mediation would have been useful.

The way I see it is that this pair repeatedly pick on people they view as "easy targets", down at their doors threatening them with violence. The police are called every time and "have a word". FFS, one incident they were even charged over, it went to the fiscal's office and they got a written warning, and yet still they continue with their threatening behaviour! What is the point?!

Maybe I am being naive to think that this behaviour is unacceptable and that the HA should be doing something about their tenants, I just do not see why I should have to sit round a table with them to "discuss" this, and why it will look bad on me if I refuse? Surely these tenants are in breach of their tenancy agreement, and that is that? I just don't see what mediation will achieve, I think it's gone beyond that.

Sleepflower777 did yous ee my post?

I think I would speak to your solicitor and find out where you stand legally.
I also thought about the papers and mp but not sure if that would exaserbate the situation.
Again ask the HA for a copy of their complaints procedure and a copy of their terms and conditions for tenants (or whatever it is called). Study it and find a section/part of it which your neighbours are in breech of.
then inform the Ha in writing of this breech and ask them specifically what they intend to do about it and when.
I know you won't feel like it but I would keep a watchful eye and when this child approaches I would call in your dcs.
If they ask why tell them you don't want them to play out as she is there.
Keep bringing them in when she comes. Make it plain they come in when she approaches I would have no quarms in saying something like "Come in now , you know we don't want you to play with her, she is not a nice girl."

It might sound awful but you have to put the welfare of your dcs first.

Oh and never answer the door to these people, phone the police and tell them what is happening.

YANBU 2shoes is right.....contact mp, newspaper. Do not go to mediation...you are right to protect yourself from this family.

I would not go to the papers, imo it would make it worse as the other family would then paint them selves as victims.

Try the council OP, they usually have an anti-social officer in the housing dept. I'm not sure where the overlap/relationship is between council and HA but I would definitely be on the case to them too. And keep calling the police, as others have said, every single time you or yours are threatened.

Hugs. It must be outrageously stressful.

Sorry 2shoes I worded that bady, I meant you had said about mp.

You must feel so trapped; we are having similar problems on our allotment but at least that is not our home.
You should definitely contact your local councillor and MP, your local officer responsible for Housing and Assembly member.
Ours have been wonderful.
It is awful to be powerless in the face of bullying and harassment.
I would email all the above and send a copy to the HA.
Be as concise as you can but emphasise the effect this is having on you, your partner and your children.
Good luck xx