To think unless you have children you have no idea the realities of having children

[McHappyPants2012]

There is a women who has no children in work, never wanted children and she is 55 so very unlikely to have them.

She always says if I had dc then they wouldn't be getting up in the night. ( people are saying I look tired in work) also when I rant about the dc she always has an appinon.

"vets can phone in sick"- er, no, not where I worked! I take your point about annual leave, but I'd still rather get up in the night with my own newborn than be at work! One of my main reasons to get pregnant in the first place was maternity leave !

I also agree with Jool, that parents are the only ones to know what tiredness feels like is a bit of a daft view point . Id choose getting up with my baby every two hours, and seeing to sick teens in the same night over what I use to do !

Well I am 41 and childless by choice. I would NEVER tell a women with kids how to parent. I do assume it is hard work though. I certainly do not mind hearing their parenting woes. I am usually very sympathetic. Infact I am always offering to babysit for free to give them a break.

OP - not all childless women are like that the women you described.

I agree with arctic.

I am "childless" but have three step kids who stay with us twice a week. To imply that those without children have "no idea of the reality of having children" is a patronsing generalisation and YABU.

Her comment about getting up in the night could have easily been flippant (and I know many parents who would also say this dependent on how they parent their children). If you "rant" at work about your kids then I am aftraid you have cast your bread upon the water regarding opinions. What did you expect?

taxiforme - I almost said patronising too! Infact I got a hint of the attitudes that childless women have to put up with with the OP. I actually hate the word childless. I prefer to stick 'by choice' at the end of it.

The OP seems like those people that ask me why I have chosen not to have children. FFS I do not go round asking those people with kids why they have kids!

Arctic - you summed it up perfectly at 22.06pm

Oops when I said I prefer the words 'childess by choice' I was describing myself. I didn't mean to offend the childless who are unable to have children.

I had a really boring friend who only turned boring once she had children, she banged on and on about them, and finished each speech with the words "when you have children you'll understand"

No, I understood perfectly, she was dull as fuck.

I think I would end up making a very blunt comment to this woman if she was always chipping in with endless opinions!

I absolutely hate it when people with children assume that noone else really understands what tiredness is. It's so patronising and inconsiderate. There are lots of people without children who are under stress, exhausted, ill etc and are well aware of what it likes to feel totally knackered all of the time. It's not unique to parents.

I meant to add that, unlike some parents, they don't go around expecting a medal for being the tiredest person in the universe.

OMG! What patronising bullshit. I can say, hand on heart, that I was only mildly surprised (at worst) because of the experiences I have had with children prior to having my own.

I also hate this sleep deprivation competitions. Of course other people know what it feels like to be exhausted; just because you were blessed at never having experiencing it before does not mean that there aren't childfree people with insomnia.

jusfloating - Totally agree with the tiredness thing. Not all people without children just see tiredness as staying up late at a party ffs. Many people sleep very very poorly because of for example chronic pain. People like mysef with lung damage get very tired just doing everyday stuff.

And yes when younger I was told by my DB when I mentioned about feeling exhausted because of my lung problems, that because I had never had kids I didn't understand what feeling really tired was like.

There are IME both people with and without children who are idiots about this kind of stuff.

I consider myself lucky that the only exhaustion I have in my life is from a baby that doesn't sleep . I'm too tired to drive but I am so grateful that I don't have to experience this tiredness alongside stress , pain or mental anguish . I can think of far more worse and tiring situations .

OP if you don't want this person to pass comment , don't discuss when she is around. Otherwise just accept her life and therefore her view is different to yours . If her life was different , and she did have kids , there is every possibility that she may not have to get up to her children through the night if they were good sleepers , making her view point valid for her situation .

Not sure but I am sure Supernanny (childless) is BRILLIANT!!. Maybe this womna would have said the same thing even if she had had children, some folk are just opinionated!. It's like me (a half Asian person) trying to tell white people how hard it can sometimes be to encounter racism, some white people don't have a clue!!!, but some I think try their hardest and I think it kinda gives them an insight. But agree with Joolyjoolyjoo about the Prime Minister, I've never been one but know he's making a crappy job of it!!! and also that people WITH can be worse sometimes!, my Mum would much prefer Supernanny than some people she knows who have kids!. Parent doesn't always=nice person!, nor does childfree. x

woman I ment!!! x

You are both BU. If your DC are the only thing you can talk about at work, I feel sorry for your colleagues. And she sounds a nightmare.

I don't have DC and don't generally comment on other people's parenting, unlesss it is directly affecting me. Similarly, I wouldn't expect sweeping generalisations from parents in the workplace about my lonely barren life without offspring. [bugrin]

I actually enjoy listening to parents talk about their children (up to a certain point); of course I don't know how life with my own children is like, as I don't have them. However, when a person tells you about something that happened to them, it is logical to think I will have my chance to contribute to the conversation. Some of these contributions will probably be advice or my reflection of what I would do in her position. It may be more or less useful advice, and a more or less exact way of describing what I would do in that situation, but I always assumed the person listening was the one who had to analyse the advice/recommendations and then do whatever worked the best for her with them.

This whole forum is about people telling others what happened to them and listening about other people's opinions. Some of these opinions contain useful things, others can be discarded. Why would childless people feel they are supposed to shut up whenever children come up in the conversation? Sometimes we can give advice that is not clouded by tiredness, mood or emotions. Sometimes it can be useful advice. There are millions of women in the world giving birth and becoming mothers right this very moment. There are billions of other mammals doing the same. It IS a very special situation... for the mother. But admit it, it is fairly common to have children, most people do it at some point of their lives, and if it was so much hard work and terrible, more people would choose not to have them. Mothers sometimes feel the need to rant because, obviously, some parts of parenting ARE hard. But suggesting that there is nothing harder than having children? Well... famine... war... torture... having to spend your life looking for food in garbage... being kidnapped and raped repeatedly... being physically abused by a person you love for years and years... seeing someone you love suffer, wither and die. I can imagine MANY things much harder than having healthy children and suffering through some years of sleep deprivation and tantrums.

My three childless aunties cared for their dad for 10 years after he suffered several embolisms. He ended up helpless, having to be fed and changed. They also cared for their mother when she was dying. She frequently spent whole nights screaming in pain. I guess I should tell them they have no idea what sleep deprivation and exhaustion is like. After all, you know... they never had children!!!

I have a fair idea of how hard having children is. That is precisely why I decided not to have them.

MyBaby1day white people can be on the receiving end of racism too, it's a two-way street.
And life is hard, whether you have children or not. There's nothing to be gained by "ranting" about your lot

I had lots of opinions on parenting before becoming a parent. I was a primary school teacher and used to say things like 'how hard cab it be to read with your child three times a week?!'
and 'if I had kids they'd never be late for school'

My DS has never been late for school and I do nearly always read with him the required number of times a week, but I now see how hard these things can be.

My husband told me he knew all about babies as he had lots of nieces and nephews. I knew he was exaggerating but when DS arrived, it became obvious he knew nothing. Literally nothing. He was asking if a week-old baby could wait until after we'd done the Tesco shop to be fed He thought there was something wrong with him or with my milk because his poo was yellow.

I was more tired when I was teaching full time than I ever was on ML with a small baby. I was lucky to have a good sleeper, but still - there are many things that can ruin people's sleep than babies. I'd rather be up tending to a baby than in constant pain, for example.

With absolutely no offence meant to anyone who doesn't have children it simply is impossible to realise what the all encompassing responsibility of having your own children is like until you actually have them! - I don't see how anyone can dispute this?. Obviously step-parents who have full time care of their children would understand too or au pairs because they are doing the 24/7 responsibility thing but I don't think just being an aunt or watching friends counts!. I thought I knew loads about babies as I havev ery young siblings how wrong was I!. My friend had her first a few days ago and rang my sister saying now I know what you mean! she admitted she just thought we were all making a fuss over what was obviously a straight forward job!.
I by no means mean to imply that the baby is difficult to look after it goes way beyond that- the hormones, the utter feeling of love worry in the middle of the night the inability to think of anything but your precious lo for a few months-I don't think this feeling can be described or fully understood until you have your own (naturally/adoptive etc.).