To think that a Jehovah's Witness has no right to demand that I respect his beliefs when he's just rung my doorbell to bore me with his

[CrockoDuck]

Happy to respect the rights of people to have their beliefs, but I reserve the right to point out factual inaccuracies and scientific ignorance when it's brought to my home.

Religion doesn't make the decision about whether or not people have blood transfusions. People decide whether they have blood transfusions based on their religious beliefs. It's personal choice. Like when Catholics don't use contraception, or Muslims fast. Some follow the guidelines laid down by their faith to the letter, some are a bit more lax.

You could try my MIL's approach.

I was at her house a little while ago. Knock on door, she opens to find two gentlemen standing there. "Good Morning" says one "did you know that 80 per cent of the world's population live in poverty?". "Yes thank you" says MIL "life isn't fair, is it?". SLAM.

I've invited JWs to come into into my house in the past, but slowly began to realize that they don't want a balanced discussion about Christianity, - it seemed to me that they were programmed to collect souls - and that turned me off, so I stopped talking to them.

Schlumberger - I did also suggest to them that if they changed those doom and gloom greetings that they do at the door they might have better luck engaging with the public...and that it might be a good idea to talk about the good ways in which the human race has evolved as well.

...but they didn't want to know.

Answer the door with pet rats on your head and shoulders. It worked very well.

DinahMoHum I have to ask, are your comments based on any actual knowledge? Because it looks a lot like you haven't a clue what you're on about. To answer your question, yes, I was born into the faith. Some of my family are still involved, others are not, but no one has abandoned anyone.

Incicentally, they are not allowed to put their foot in the door, this type of pushy behaviour is actively discouraged in the faith.

I've heard soooooo many comments along the lines of "I told them I was xyz, and they haven't been back!" The likelihood is that they HAVE been back, they just haven't caught you at home. They don't just do Sundays, you know.

One of the very nicest people I know is a JW. She's not stupid, either.

I've come to the conclusion that what they believe, while bonkers, is no more bonkers than any other religion. I suppose at least most other religions don't go knocking on your door.

I've no interest in talking to them and would politely say so. But presumably there are people whose doors they knock on who are interested in talking to them, and want to convince the JW that their beliefs are wrong. Well surely such people have just as much right to try and convert the JWs as the JWs have to try and convert the person whose house it is?

We haven't got any obligation to respect other people's beliefs. If any of us believed that, we wouldn't be on AIBU telling other people what they think is wrong about dogs in parks, SAHMs or whatever. What we do have an obligation to do in general is respect somebody's right to hold a belief, but we don't have to respect the belief itself.

YANBU
They (anyone) disturb me and try to indoctrinate me with their bull shit then I have the right to tell them what I think!

I don't have to respect anyone that doesn't respect my privacy!

I haven't seen a JW in years. Like Happenstance I live in a rough area so that's probably why. The last time I had a visit was on a Sunday morning. I just said 'no, thanks' and they asked if they could give me a leaflet which I accepted and put in the recycling and left. Whether I'd be so polite if they came on a regular basis and were pushy I'm afraid I can't say.

DinahMoHum is completely correct, but it hinges on one thing, whether you are baptized are not (as a JW).

If you are baptized (I was at 13), and subsequently want to leave the faith, you will be 'disfellowshipped' or you can effectively do this to yourself by 'disassociating'.

A disfellowshipped or disassociated person is not to be associated with by any members who are still JW (aside from absolute essentials, such as if you work in the same place, or you are still a minor living at home, etc.)

This extends to JWs being advised not to even say 'hello' to the person (based on a scripture that says not to greet such ones). If they ignore this advice, they risk being 'disciplined' themselves.

My mother became disfellowshipped, and was subsequently shunned completely by her entire family (including parents and adult children), until after two years of isolation she could not take the pain and returned.

The same thing has happened to two other more remote family members of mine, various members of the congregation at different times, and I am now in the difficult position of facing the prospect of this happening to me should I openly decide to leave (the only reason I haven't is because I do not want to lose my entire family).

It makes me very angry when Jehovah's Witnesses try to cover up or deny these consequences, as they absolutely do exist.

The only people who can leave without severe social consequences are those who have never been baptized.

Just to back up what I am saying :-

The official watchtower website has this to say about the practice
www.watchtower.org/e/19880415/article_01.htm

A family member living in the immediate household may still be interacted with.
"Thus, a man who is disfellowshipped or who disassociates himself may still live at home with his Christian wife and faithful children. Respect for God's judgments and the congregation's action will move the wife and children to recognize that by his course, he altered the spiritual bond that existed between them. Yet, since his being disfellowshipped does not end their blood ties or marriage relationship, normal family affections and dealings can continue."

Any family member not actually living in the immediate household is to be shunned as far as possible.
"The situation is different if the disfellowshipped or disassociated one is a relative living outside the immediate family circle and home. It might be possible to have almost no contact at all with the relative. Even if there were some family matters requiring contact, this certainly would be kept to a minimum, in line with the divine principle: "Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person [or guilty of another gross sin], . . . not even eating with such a man."
?1 Corinthians 5:11.

Understandably, this may be difficult because of emotions and family ties, such as grandparents' love for their grandchildren. Yet, this is a test of loyalty to God, as stated by the sister quoted on page 26. Anyone who is feeling the sadness and pain that the disfellowshipped relative has thus caused may find comfort and be encouraged by the example set by some of Korah's relatives.
?Psalm 84:10-12."

The article includes information about an unsuccessful court case regarding the practice, and some quotes from people who have disfellowshipped/disassociated family members.

So lets stop denying that JWs practice shunning please. They absolutely do, and you are only 'immune' if you were never baptized.

YANBU
I used to have such fun with the Jehovah Witnesses when I was a teenager still living at home. I was a goth and when I saw them knocking on doors in my street I used to crank up some loud music- Bauhaus Stigmata martyr was a good one, or the Banshees Lord's Prayer, put on as much goth garb as I could and answer the door holding my upside down crucifix in my hand. They couldn't wait to get away

Well, Whiteshores, my brother was baptised and I was not. Neither of us live at home. My mother still talks to us both, and even goes on holiday to visit my brother as he lives a long way away. I am not a Jehovah's Witness, and have no interest in covering up or denying anything. Certainly when I was involved, which admittedly is a few years ago, it was generally considered that you shouldn't talk to those who had been disfellowshipped / disassociated, but there certainly was no punishment. Maybe that has changed.

What a lot of posters seem to be forgetting is that this is a religion consisting of many, many INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE who have their own take on scripture and on the guidelines issued. You can say THEY do this, THEY do that, and a lot of people go on about brainwashing, but every one of the people involved is in possession of free will, and one will act very differently from another.

At the end of the day, I left the religion, so obviously there was a lot I didn't (and don't) agree with, I really doesn't serve me to lie or defend anything. I just want people to understand that they are normal people just doing what they feel is right. You disagree with them - fine.

I have never encountered a pushy JW. I just say "no thanks, I'm not interested" and they go on their way. I do receive lots of annoying callers but the JW's don't fall into that category.

My sister disassociated herself. She still speaks to our dad, and sister, and many friends.
And I still say, manners cost nothing. JWs do no harm, and often help people, be civil FGS! You wouldn't tell the Avon Lady, or the Kleeneze rep to fuck off, would you!

DinaHoMom. I was born a JW. I left at 25, not being disfellowshipped or having any official punishment from the religion. Most of my family does not talk to me out of their own choice, and on the chance occasion that I run into someone that is a JW that I knew from back then, the reaction is almost universally for them to turn bright red and stare at their feet and act like I don't exist. Not everyone does that, but I have run into several ones that were JW when I left, and now they're not, and most of them have had the vast majority of their JW friends and relatives stop contact with them.

Dinahomum, I disassociated a long time ago and everyone that I knew that is still JW avoids me like the plague, none of them will even say hello. Luckily, I was a convert and so didn't lose my family.

I also know several other people who have disassociated and they have all received the same treatment. One woman lost her lifelong best friend because of it. Another girl I knew, was cut off from her family when she was a pregnant teenager because she was disfellowshipped.

As for JWs all having their own take on scriptures, that's really not true. independent thought is actively discouraged and JWs are not allowed to read the bible without reference to WBTS publications because the GB found that if people read their bibles without the mags/books they started to question and fall away from "The Truth" back into false religious beliefs because only the faithful and discreet slave has the key to true biblical understanding.

I wish people would stop denying that the shunning happens because it is the hardest thing for people who leave to bear, especially as when you become involved you are actively encouraged to cut yourself off from any friends and associates who aren't in the Truth to avoid backsliding. JWs and the work become your whole life.

Awful! If they really believe by spreading the word of God they're doing good, why would that ever have to involve shunning family and friends??

DonkeyTeapot If your mother is a baptized JW and still speaks with one of her family members who was a baptized JW but has left, then she is breaking the rules and would definitely be chastized/disciplined by the elders if they knew about it. This could even include being disfellowshipped herself if she continued to disobey official guidelines (and she would then be shunned by the entire congregation).

Speaking to you would not invite any sanctions if you were never baptized.

Some JWs decide to break the rules because keeping contact with their own family members is more important to them, but they absolutely would face consequences in the congregation if they were caught.

You don't have to take my word for it, just go to the official website www.watchtower.org and type disfellowshipping into their search box. The guidelines on shunning come from them, and are not something I am making up.

I have no problem with people converting to JW if that is what they want, but they should not have the facts hidden from them (and that includes shunning should they get baptized and then decide to leave).

When do JW get baptised?

Also, not talking to the person generally is considered the punishment. Being entirely socially excluded from your own family members and entire congregation (which for many JWs includes all their friends) is absolutely devastating for those who have been through it.

SophieNeveau To get baptized they have to be able to answer questions to the satisfaction of the congregation elders, to prove that they have knowledge of JW beliefs (and ideally to demonstrate that they know what they are signing up for).

Going from what I have seen alone, this can be as young as 10 years old (I was 13), and any age over.

WhiteShores, they've had several articles in the magazines the past few years highlighting the wonderfulness of baptism in which they've talked about several 8 year olds getting baptized.

WhiteShores, they do know about it. My mum has to bore everyone she meets with details of every little thing she did on her holiday. She does not go on holidays every year, in fact until my brother moved abroad she'd never been out of the UK. She's also very proud of my brother's achievements in his career, and will tell anyone who'll listen, so she is definitely not in touch with him secretly. I'll let her know to expect her disciplinary action any time. (It's been 17 years so far.)

Clearly, people's experiences differ.