If you can't afford children you shouldn't have them.

[MrsArchieTheInventor]

"If you can't afford children you shouldn't have them" [and] "child benefit and tax credits should be abolished" with the mantra that if she choses to be childless she should not be forced to pay for the 'breeding' choices of others.

A Facebook friend of mine. I didn't retaliate.

I think that people should not have cats.
They murder millions of birds resulting in an imbalance in ecological systems.
Are a waste of the meat and fish which could be turned into burgers and fishcakes to feed the starving millions.
They trigger allergies.
They ruin plants and gardens.
They carry fleas, which at best are itchy and annoying, at worst carry disease.
I do not know of single cat that has invented anything or won a Nobel prize. They're useless.

People and the environment should not be made to suffer because some weirdos enjoy the snooty, protein hungry, allergy triggering, mass murdering garden vandals.

If you suddenly find that you are entertaining the notion of getting a cat for companionship, seek therapy. It will help you in your interactions with others of your own species.

Re overpopulation - does the fact that some "third world" countries have booming populations prohibit those in the "first world" from having children? Sounds a little nonsensical to me.

in the UK use 6 times the amount of resources as e.g. the average African person. whats the world going to be like when their standard of living gets nearer ours?

Here you go, just to prove I'm not making up stats.

The New Statesman published a report stating that tax evasion costs the UK economy £69.9bn a year.
According to Direct Gov, benefit cheats cost the UK economy £900m.

So who do you think we should be shaking our shitty sticks at?

It's helpful to have enough money to be able to feed, clothe and heat the house though oohlordylordy. We're going bloody backwards, not forwards. My mother and father were poor when they were kids, they worked their way out of that poverty (because my dad was really clever actually, that was the only reason) and I grew up comparatively wealthy. My children though? Well - with the prices of everything just going up and up and up and up, and the wages staying static and the cuts?...

I think my children's lives will be poorer, and that doesn't seem right.

Lucca there needs to be investments made in creating jobs, the problem is that because we lost most of our manufacturing and exports, and other countries have taken them over (and treat THEIR workers like shit and pay them fuck all) and do it better and cheaper, I'm not really sure.

I don't know where it will all end TBH.

"Richard Murphy of Tax Research UK, that undertook the research for the Tax Justice Network, says: "If only more had been done to tackle rampant tax evasion, Europe would not be facing a crisis today." Adding that to compel both business and the tax havens themselves to be transparent in their dealings would "shatter the secrecy of tax havens for good." Nothing, he goes on, "could make a bigger contribution than this to solving the world's financial crisis".

I think people spend more time arguing about those on benefits than they do about those who fiddle their taxes because for most of us, it's easier to relate to people who claim benefits than it is to relate to people who have enough money that they can evade tax.

I don't know enough about tax evasion to have any opinion other than its wrong, but I do know about benefits. And everyone agrees that tax evasion is wrong, whereas there are lots of people on both sides of the benefits debate.

But benefit fraud/missuse/whatever is a drop in the ocean compared with the rest though. madness. [condused]

It is Bat, but I don't think that means we shouldnt be able to have an opinion on the smaller issue just because the bigger issue is bigger. Especially when there's not much debate to be had on the bigger issue because everyone except the super rich agrees with each other.

rhubarb

I think that the reason peopl spend more time arguing about benefits is nothing to do with not knowing or understanding about tax evasion, and everything to do with feeling superior to someone else.

I think that those people who "envy" people on benefits must have very poor self esteem and very sad lives in general.

Yes benefit fraud is a drop in the ocean compared to other misuses.
Tax evasion is illegal.
Tax avoidance is not.

Go figure that one out!

Whether you take a job for cash in hand to fund a family holiday, or deliberately set up an offshore account in Jersey to avoid paying UK tax so that you can reap more profits - both are equally wrong. Which one is more morally wrong though? And which should we be ranting about do you think, given the figures quoted earlier and the government's attitude to tax avoiders compared to benefit cheats?

It's pretty much a non issue in comparison

Shirley, what makes you think that people who disagree with certain aspects of the benefits system envy people that are on them. That is a very defensive attitude to take, and it's simply not true.

The New Statesman published a report stating that tax evasion costs the UK economy £69.9bn a year. According to Direct Gov, benefit cheats cost the UK economy £900m.

I totally agree we should go after this too - yet interestingly enough when I made this point re Amazon (£7bn sales in UK, £) bn tax paid) on another thread I was roundly criticized there too....

MN, eh?

Yar I am d'accord with the basic sentiment, don't have kids if you think that the world will rally round. To many selfish decisions, too little thought, too little planet to share round.

There is a world of difference between having an opinion and blaming all the worlds problems on single teen mums.

So just because the rich have each others backs we should just accept it and not point it out at every available oppertunity?

yy Shirely

Rhubarb, the two situations you give are equal in being morally wrong, and either are worthy of being ranted about. The figures involved arent the point, the principle is the same.

The thing is though, Rhubarb, that it's a waste of time...all of this, the whole thread and every thread like it is a big old waste of time, because those who believe that those "benefit bastards are stealing my tax money" are no more likely to change their minds than those who believe that we are being taught to squabble amongst ourselves while the rich get richer, and who don't really give a fuck that their Hard Earned Tax Money gets given to people without jobs.

I've Statplopped. It is simply not possible for us as a country to have full employment with 2.7 million unemployed and 463,000 vacancies - it's mathematically impossible, but this doesn't stop people going on about the lazy benefit scroungers getting as job.

It's like a blindness, IMO.

I don't think anyone is blaming all the worlds problems on single teen Mums

Most truly remarkable people throughout history, were born into poverty

Certainly all of my 'heros'

Making some people live in shit = a saving of 50p

Making fat cats pay their fair share = Saves millions

Lets chace the 50p because it's easier, will do fuck asll in the long run but if you start with the weekest you can work up, what's next bet it's still not the big boys.

What's that saying? 'first they came for the?

x posted with you outraged.

I was referring to a post earlier saying how unfair it is that a single mum got a council flat and blah blah blah...sure sounded like envy to me.

Why would I be defensive - is it because you believe that I am on benefits?

The figures involved are the point.

Surely the human race would die off if everyone waited till they could afford children, or we would be left with a world where only the rich could have babies... and the poor would be forced into selling theirs.

Jesus-for the religious amongst us