If you can't afford children you shouldn't have them.

[MrsArchieTheInventor]

"If you can't afford children you shouldn't have them" [and] "child benefit and tax credits should be abolished" with the mantra that if she choses to be childless she should not be forced to pay for the 'breeding' choices of others.

A Facebook friend of mine. I didn't retaliate.

Why should there be a limit for people who pay for their own children?

Er so we have lots of people and not many jobs and not much money..... Hhhhhmmmm don't we need to address this somehow?

I don't have the answer by the way but I dont think that the over emotive mud slinging "how very dare you" whatnot going on this thread aint helping us much.

Get rid of the old people, better solution.

Because the world will soon limit it for them.

Money or not money.

I can envisage a time that money doesn't count for all that much. When food, water and fuel count for a lot more.

Because, outraged, we've moved on from bashing the poor a little bit - I can see the disappointment in your eyes - and have moved onto over population.

because outraged the problem now is overpopulation apparently.

Jeez...imagine the world/country if only the rich had children!

That thought alone, hardens my resolve to support the benefit system

Let's not forget, that 'the rich' have created a society where so many people can't afford to have children

Delete and block her, I wish I could do that on MN

Theres a few on this thread that would be on my block list.

watch this

That was a really worthy post there Lucca. Thanks for bringing us all back into line.

"problem"
So the poor are now a "problem"

Tax avoidance is also a problem, should we force them to repay their taxes before they have any more children?

Oh fuck this. Yes outcome 2 will probably happen and all the superior rich people will dictate to all the poor just how many children they can have whilst they bottle feed their 10th child with champagne.

Isn't it funny that as soon as a recession comes along all the poor haters crawl out of the woodwork.
They are far too ignorant and up their own arses to look into why the situation is as it is. They don't want to know about statistics to do with unemployment and job opportunities. They don't want to know how much tax avoidance cost the government.
They don't give a shit that more is spent on Tory lunches and jollies than on child benefit in any given year.

Ignorance breeds ignorance and I pity the children of ignorant people. Perhaps we should limit their breeding?

I now fully wish I could block certain people from my Mumsnet list too.

I for one want to live in society that takes care of its children. I stay at home with my 3DCs, my DH is a high earner and I have never claimed benefits in my life, in comparison to some I lead a charmed life and I think you have to be quite bitter to resent a young pregnant girl getting some grotty council flat.

2. Goverments will impose ever stricter and stricter guidelines on how many children people can have (Outcome: Likely)

this option could be applied to affect all income levels - so it would not discriminate on income.

because outraged the problem is now overpopulation apparently

Fair enough.

I never thought it was about poor bashing though, I find it wierd how some people take it as that. My basic opinion is that people should take responsibility for their own choices, I don't really see how that translates into poor bashing.

I bet it bloody well would though.

It's hugely worrying then that so much effort goes into slashing benefit budgets and comparativey little into investigating tax evasion. Perhaps then that is the answer- claw back what should be available and offer assistance where it is needed?

I said earlier, I don't think it takes money to raise a child.

I doubt, just to take an example we can all relate to, Nelson Mandela had anywhere NEAR what we take for granted.

In fact, being rather painfully honest now, I think the childhood memories I have (very deprived area, very skint) will be better than my DC (Still skint but much nicer area). Kids don't give a flying hoot about money. Not really.

So what is the answer? We need more money and more jobs. Maybe we can kick the rich in to paying a bit more cash but where are the jobs going to come from?

Do you think that everyone chooses when to have children?
That people generally choose to be on benefits?
That they choose to live in council flats on council estates?
Do people choose to be made redundant? Or out of work?

There is a tiny minority of people who choose to fiddle benefits.
Probably less than those who fiddle their taxes, from self employed people who claim petrol allowance to large companies with offshore tax reserves.

Guess who costs the state more? (Clue, it's not the benefit dodgers)
So given this information, why do you think that people spend more time arguing about those who claim benefits than the tax dodgers?
Well because benefit cheats are easy targets and are not cosying up to the government.

So when an entire thread on Mumsnet implies that poor people get pregnant deliberately to steal your hard earned tax money, it kinda relates to poor bashing yes. Because the other side of the argument is conveniently ignored in the rush to beat the poor with your own little shit sticks.

Re overpopulation - does the fact that some "third world" countries have booming populations prohibit those in the "first world" from having children? Sounds a little nonsensical to me.

BTW the Bob Gelfdof "we need more money" I meant to be help those in need and supporting NHS and stuff, I am not trying to say we all need more nintendos or anything!

Countries where contraception / abortion etc are not allowed are not going to be imposing birth limits any time soon now are they.

So the suggestion is that some countries limit their birth rates but much of the rest of the world don't? That's not going to happen.

Incidentally people have reduced family sizes as wealth increases. It is no coincidence that wealthier countries have lower birth rates than poorer countries.

Logically then the solution is to raise the standard of living / wealth of people across the world, combined with enforcing a worldwide program of equal right for women (access to contraception, equality in the law, access to abortion and so on) and we'd start to get somewhere.

That's not going to happen though is it, because people on the whole aren't collaborative and sensible and grown up and kind.

So we'll carry on the way we are then.

Problem is, it isn't tax evasion. The government didn't claim them tax due from Vodafone (was it Vodafone?) To keep them operating in the UK. Government pretty much held to ransom by corporation- a monserous situation created by privatisation. I forget the figures but it was more than the benefit cut figure!