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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

If you can't afford children you shouldn't have them.

960 replies

MrsArchieTheInventor · 05/04/2012 12:28

"If you can't afford children you shouldn't have them" [and] "child benefit and tax credits should be abolished" with the mantra that if she choses to be childless she should not be forced to pay for the 'breeding' choices of others.

A Facebook friend of mine. I didn't retaliate.

Hmm
OP posts:
HalfPastWine · 05/04/2012 13:20

The state should have a short term safety net, not a lifetime of supporting a persons lifestyle choice. I agree.

ABatinBunkFive - my point is that here a woman can refuse to sleep with her partner if he refuses to use contraception. In some third world countries rape within marriage is rife, these woman have no choice and ultimately become pregnant.

scottishmummy · 05/04/2012 13:22

Archie why are you traipsing a fb thread across mn
go discuss it with her on fb instead of she said I said relay

PooshTun · 05/04/2012 13:23

My hairdresser's daughter got pregnant as school girl. The coucil housed her in a one bedroom flat in London. At that age I couldn't even afford to rent a bedroom in London let alone a flat. She then got pregnant again and the council housed her in a two bedroom flat. About two years later the council housed her in a house with a garden.

It is ridiculous that the council goes out of its way to make her life more comfortable with each new child. I mean, some couples work hard and struggle for years to buy a house. Often the woman puts off children until she is in her late 20s so as to build up some savings.

I would rather see my tax money going to help some struggling young couple then mums who see the benefit system as a means for others to fund their babies.

anewmotivatedme · 05/04/2012 13:24

I agree with the sentiments, but don't think its realistic. Being a parent of two children, I hugely appreciate child benefit and tax allowance. Although from tomorrow we will not receive any tax allowances.

I was 30, and my husband 35, when we became first time parents. We'd been together a decade, and with our rainy day savings, felt we could afford to have children.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos · 05/04/2012 13:24

If your dh lost his job tomorrow and you lost yours, if you both had to rely on benefits and weren't even getting responses to your job applications, woudo you then just accept that you couldn't have any children because that was the hand life dealt you?

Erm, yes! Of course I would! Because I have some sense of responsibility for myself and the children I create!

You made that statement as if it was something ridiculous, when actually, it's common sense. We don't have a God given right to have children. The fact that so many people believe we do is exactly the reason why the safety net of benefits can't be as good as it could be.

And what I suggested wouldn't even prevent a couple on benefits from having one child, it would just make them stops and think twice about having two.

ShirelyKnottage · 05/04/2012 13:26

Single parent bashing now as well. nice.

ShirelyKnottage · 05/04/2012 13:26

Whoops, BTW pooshtun, anyone can apply to be on the council housing list. SO if you feel really hard done by why don't you put your name down?

hobnobsaremyfavourite · 05/04/2012 13:27

OP why did you feel the need to bring a comment on facebook to AIBU? Surely you would have the imagination to see where this sort of thread would go? And then drip feeding comments about abortion? Because of course comments like that won't upset anyone Hmm Or do you just like shit stirring?

HalfPastWine · 05/04/2012 13:27

You know, despite my best efforts, I am genuinely upset by this thread. To think there are people who would rather I aborted dd than claim a little support from the state whilst I needed it is just too much today.

Abortion is a difficult decision to make and the thought of having one because of finances is very very sad indeed for the person making the decision. This is why benefits should be available, if only for the short term to enable mother and baby to have a chance at a good start in life.

ABatInBunkFive · 05/04/2012 13:27

ABatinBunkFive - my point is that here a woman can refuse to sleep with her partner if he refuses to use contraception. In some third world countries rape within marriage is rife, these woman have no choice and ultimately become pregnant.

Whereas that never happens in this counrty? Hmm

oohlordylordy · 05/04/2012 13:28

I'm sorry, Shirelyknottage but I'm going to side with Pooshtun on this one

I grew up in a deprived area of NE England in the 80s and having a child was seen as a reasonably good career move. I'm not saying it's the majority of people, but I am saying it happens.

anewmotivatedme · 05/04/2012 13:29

If your dh lost his job tomorrow and you lost yours, if you both had to rely on benefits and weren't even getting responses to your job applications, woudo you then just accept that you couldn't have any children because that was the hand life dealt you?

I would not have any more children, till we'd got new jobs, and were in a better financial position. I'd try to help myself first, by getting a job. I was made redundant at 26 (we were thinking about having our first child), and we started trying when I was 29, and settled in my new job.

DH and I decided to stop at two children, as we could not afford a third. We'd have stopped at one, if we could not afford the second.

hobnobsaremyfavourite · 05/04/2012 13:29
bagpuss · 05/04/2012 13:29

What's her definition of being able to afford them, op? I have to admit that this phrase really confuses me when I see it being bandied about. We, for example, wanted a fourth child but ended up with twins and therefore a completely unplanned extra person. It has been more expensive for us, yes, but we learnt very quickly to only buy essentials and live within our means. I didn't have a pot of cash available for each child concieved so could not afford to have them as such. Is your friend saying that I should have aborted?

anewmotivatedme · 05/04/2012 13:30

I would not abort, if an accident happened, but I would not choose to conceive. Benefits are a safety net.

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 05/04/2012 13:30

I have loads of kids and not much money.
But my kids are SO amazingly wonderful and beautiful I reckon they are worth the dosh I rake in from the state.

If I wasnt so old I would pop at leat another two out (because NEVER forget, poor women always pop out their babies, its is a fact).

What does 'being able to afford children' actually mean anyway.
Is it like 'only people who can afford to be old should keep on living'?

HalfPastWine · 05/04/2012 13:31

My hairdresser's daughter got pregnant as school girl. The coucil housed her in a one bedroom flat in London. At that age I couldn't even afford to rent a bedroom in London let alone a flat. She then got pregnant again and the council housed her in a two bedroom flat. About two years later the council housed her in a house with a garden

There was a 'trend' when I was in school back in the 80s, girls I knew became pregnant so that they would get a flat or a house. It happened, they got everything. Now however, it's a different story, a lot of young girls in this situation are forced into Mother & Baby units and there life is a whole different story, often very isolating.

HalfPastWine · 05/04/2012 13:33

ABatinBunkFive - my point is that here a woman can refuse to sleep with her partner if he refuses to use contraception. In some third world countries rape within marriage is rife, these woman have no choice and ultimately become pregnant.

Whereas that never happens in this counrty?

FFS. Yes it does but there is much more support here. Womens Refuge for a start. Do they have that in third world countries, I doubt it.

ShirelyKnottage · 05/04/2012 13:34

oohlordylordy - and how sad i that? That some areas of deprivation have been allowed to get so poor and without hope that having a baby is seen as a "career choice". I have family in S Wales and I am telling you that there are fuck all jobs, apart from maybe some in the Supermarkets - certainly not enough jobs for everyone and there haven't been for years.

Again, what about the fact that there are simply not enough jobs - 463,000 for the 2.7 million unemployed in this country?

Why are "we" as a society not placing the blame for that at the feet of the governments who have completely decimated manufacturing, mining, etc etc and pushed the vast majority of our income as a country into the financial sector thus ensuring that thousands of people have no fucking chance whatsoever?

mrstiredandconfused · 05/04/2012 13:34

That's a really interesting point Rhubarb - you're right, it would be like saying that only the rich should be allowed to breed which obviously is a dreadful state of affairs.

But i've seen so many people who have been crapped on by life, and the amount of help they have received has been pitiful (this goes for low salary parents, lps, those with a disability, older people). If there are finite resources where should they go?

Fwiw dh and I are desperate to ttc but simply can't afford to atm. After 12 years together it is rather depressing! Neither of us are in particularly stable jobs. Personally I would rather wait a bit longer and try to do it without help rather than use money that, in my own mind at least, I would prefer go to help people who really need it.

However give me a couple more years and I may well out myself as a hypocrite! Grin

oohlordylordy · 05/04/2012 13:34

That is interesting, Halfpastwine - my experience is from 80s as well and girls who got knocked up got EVERYTHING. They were actually looked up to for being so savvy as to have a flat and money etc., when the rest of us had p*ss all.

SardineQueen · 05/04/2012 13:34

halfpastwine what makes you think that rape within marriage does not happen in the UK Confused

I am very surprised to see someone who is vehemently anti-abortion agreeing that children should not be supported by the state. That is a bit odd.

Does anyone on the thread agree with forced removal of "excessive" children, so that they can be passed on to people with more money?

SardineQueen · 05/04/2012 13:35

There is an argument that women who are raped in the UK are lucky in some way?

OK this is getting seriously barking now.

HalfPastWine · 05/04/2012 13:36

SardineQueen I have not said that rape within marriage dos not happen in the UK, if you re my thread I have acknowledge the fact that it does.

I am very surprised to see someone who is vehemently anti-abortion agreeing that children should not be supported by the state. That is a bit odd.

Is that directed at me SardineQueen ?

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 05/04/2012 13:37

How can anyone be jealous of a teenager in a council house with a handful of kids?

Surely you would only upset about if it was something you wanted for yourself?

I think its very sad that our young women are being raised to think that is all they can hope for.