Small children at funerals

[LillianGish]

I went to a funeral today of a dear friend's husband. It should have been a very moving occasion with heartfelt tributes from the pulpit - unfortunately much of what was being said was drowned out by inappropriate squawking from a small child in a pushchair. The mother concerned was not one of the principal mourners and I can't for the life of me understand why she didn't take the child out when it became apparent that he wasn't going to be silenced. I don't doubt her good intentions in that she wanted to pay her respects and presumably didn't have anyone to leave the child with, but how respectful is it to allow your child to shout out at the top of its voice throughout the service? There were other children at the service - mainly friends of the dead man's children - so I don't object to children in principle - just that they shouldn't be allowed to disrupt the proceedings. Am I being unreasonable?

At my much loved granny's funeral, the family were mightily grateful for my 18 month old cousin having a boogy to Jerusalem in the aisles. Lightened the mood no end, and granny would have had a giggle. Who knew Jerusalem was so danceable?

Children make noise, rude, inconsiderate parents don't remove them. Hate selfish people like that. How obnoxious of the mother, it's bad enough when bad parenting is practiced in restaurants but at a funeral? She should have been told to leave with her squawker.

Children should be welcome at funerals but inconsiderate, lazy parenting should be treated with contempt (and a ban).

I think that the person whose funeral it is 'loved children' is really irrelevant. The funeral is really for the people left behind, the grieving, to say 'goodbye'.

I like the idea of children being taken to events, I think they should be acclimatised so that they know how to behave BUT that is down to the parents. The pacing father blowing raspberries behaved disgustingly, fuelled by his child's 'rights' to attend. Not the child's fault - the father's.

Anybody with any sensibilities at all should be able to detect whether babbling is quiet enough so as not to upset proceedings, whether those who've suffered the loss are getting upset by it or are lifted by the audible presence of a child. The boogieying toddler to the strains of Jerusalem must have been very cheering, it would cheer me up anyway.

Most people, I think, are considerate of what is right and know almost instinctively the right thing to do. The selfish, self-absorbed and self-obsessed minority will always steal the headlines - and mean to do so.

Maybe my view of things is different as a Catholic who goes to mass every week where there is a constant hubbub of small children along with the occasional outbreak of full on screaming, and my family are used to that on a weekly basis too. A Catholic funeral usually involves a normal mass, with the sermon focusing on themes of the person's life and the resurrection, etc. There would be some fairly brief eulogising after communion and then at the final blessing, prayers consigning the soul of the deceased to God. Maybe that is why the presence of small children and their noises at funerals don't seem to me to be so out of place. In fact a mass without the constant buzz of children would seem quite odd to me.

sfttr But thats exactly what a lot of people on this thread are saying...

"oh yes, take them to the funeral but the moment they behave like..well..a child...take them away"

That is seen and not heard in my book.

I agree a funeral is about the people left behind and not the deceased, but what if some of the people left behind have kids and have no childcare available??

There will always be inconsiderate people around, sadly, at weddings, funerals, baptisms you name it.

It makes me very sad to think of all these funerals taking place in complete silence and people whispering their grief.

We have a very strange attitude to grief in the UK I think

I have taken my children, unfortunately, to several funerals. They are normally very well behaved. I assumed at the start that this complaint was about a child screaming and not being taken out. However if it was just burbling a bit I really don't see a problem.

When one of my DDs asked (in her not too quiet voice), at my uncles funeral, "why are people crying". I ssshed her, but my cousins wife said it really helped her.

Basically some people in this country and even on MN don't seem to like kids much, and don't want to see them in public, and certainly don't see them as part of society. On the other hand other people at the funeral may well have found the child's presence a real comfort.

This thread is really interesting. The behaviour in the OP wouldn't bother me in the slightest, but this thread makes it very clear that there are different cultural attitudes on this issue. I'm English Catholic but of course that community has a very strong Irish influence. A funeral is a celebration, a show and in some ways a party for us. It's seen as the thing to do to give the deceased a good send off from family and friends- which includes the children.

However, it's also important to consider other mourners. So if I were going to the funeral of someone from a different background, I'd try and fit in with those cultural norms. Personally I hope that my own funeral will be punctuated by a number of my great grandchildren squawking, dancing and saying inappropriate things. Nothing would make me happier. But others have the right to feel differently. It does us no harm to treat each other with sensitivity and kindness when we've just been bereaved.

Great post flangelina

I recently went to my uncles funeral took dds age 7 and 2. Dd1 came in crem with ne and dh stood outside crem with dd2 partly due to crem being full up. We did however check with aunty first to ensure she was ok with us bringing kids which I think is only right

When we attended my Grandads funeral with 6 month old DS and my DSis took her 2 year old DD, one of the older ladies in the back row tutted as we walked past and said "they shouldn't bring children".

I was fuming, but too upset with the day to say anything, but my Grandad was the most family driven man ever and he would have wanted his Greatgrandchildren to be there (apart from the fact DS was BF and all of our family were at the funeral, so no one to look after him). DH was already set up to take DS out of the church if he had been noisy (he slept the whole time).

There's a huge difference between taking a child to a funeral, compared to letting them disrupt the proceedings for everyone else (and I think a few burblings or asking questions is fine, full on screaming to the point where others are struggling to hear is take child out time).

I agree that children and babies at funerals are fine. Noisy people of any age are not. I took 6 month old dd2 to a friends funeral. She cooed and sighed a bit and our friends sister who was sitting in front of us told me afterwards how much she liked hearing her little sighs and coos. It was an optimistic noise.

I have found a very different attitude to funerals and children on the different sides of my family.

Dad's family - catholic. Children welcomed with open arms, priest used to dealing with them, no issues.

Mum's - Methodist and CoE. Children barely tolerated, and considerable tutting - not from family but from family friends etc.

So much generalising about what 'sectors' of the population are more tolerant than others. Surely it's to do with the level of distracting, who is doing it and the type of funeral it is? There must be a marked difference in saying a family goodbye to a much loved and very elderly relative as opposed to the shocked and crushing anguish experienced by the parents who've lost a child?

If people just had a little consideration for others who are grieving, and don't allow children or adults to overshadow the proceedings, there wouldn't be this drama.

It has nothing to do with liking or not liking children but I suppose it makes for a good bunfight to keep saying so.

At a funeral service I think it's particularly important that the immediate family at least hear everything that's being said - because they're the one's needing support and comfort. There's no place for noisy children in a situation like this.

I expect most parents would be more sensitive to the needs of the congregation and would either NOT bring a child with them - or at least take it out.

Agree with Lying that it's got nothing to do with liking or not liking children.

Funerals can also be a very important event for small children. My sister died as a baby when I was 4. I went to church with my brother and granny one morning to let mum have a lie in and came back to find DSis had died.

My parents insisted my brother and I went to the funeral against some fairly rude and intense family opposition ( my parents were obviously do blinded by grief they didn't wonder what people would think.) I still remember it and I remember it as finally making sense of what was a very confusing and difficult time.

I think, as long as the parents (or a suitable designated other adult) cares for a child and removes them if noisy or deals with any upset they have, there is nothing wrong with having children at funerals.

One part of my family are a very much "children should be seen and not heard" mindset - e.g. I was a "child" when my uncle got married (I was 1 month short of my 20th birthday) and it was a "no children" wedding. So the "children" were not welcome at my Grandad's funeral (3 grandkids aged 8, 4 and 6 months, and 1 great-granchild aged 4 - the other 2 GGK were too far distant to travel anyway). Only the "adult" grandkids were allowed (aged from 25 upwards). However, we took DD to the removal the night before (not to the house, where the coffin was open, just the prayers in Church) as we didn't really have other options. DH collected her from creche and met me at church (which meant I had to drive myself, alone, behind hearse - my parents and Dad's siblings were all in funeral car) - he had a packet of buttons and raisins to keep DD happy, and made sure she'd eaten before they got there (I think a happy meal en route), and the colouring pages and pencils in my handbag were used too. She was very good, but he sat at the edge of the row to be able to leave with her if need be.

The day of the funeral though, we did send her to creche as normal and went alone. As she would have been the only kid, and I was not sure I'd keep it together so as we had the option, DH preferred to support me knowing that DD would be happy.

We have a few more funerals likely in the coming year, I'd say. One is the wife of that grandad, and the same principles will apply I'd say (no kids welcome - but we will probably bring DD to church at night as she will want to say goodbye - knows them all well). We will see how we will play the funeral itself - probably leave DD in her normal routine, but she understands more now and does seem to understand death quite well (she reminds me to go and have a chat with my 2 grandads (1 she never met) in the 2 graveyards).

The other granny is likely to have lots of kids involved - all her own grandkids are fully adult, but she has 6 great GKs and 2 step GKs who are early teens and I reckon all will prtobably be there. 5 GGK will be travelling from the UK (well, 3 will definitely come with their parents, 2 may stay home with their dad if mum flies alone) and DD will be there for all too.

I don't think anyone is objecting to children at funerals per se, just the parents who refuse to remove the children when they're creating an unacceptable level of noise. (I personally would include dancing, playing loudly in the aisles in this, not the time or the place IMO, but some obviously wouldn't)

My DS was 9 months old when my dad's mum died. I went to the funeral to support my dad (I wasn't all that close to my gran) but I had nobody to watch DS, my husband was away on a course, and my mum was in hospital having an operation (hence why she couldn't go and support my dad).

I sat at the back, my dad sat with his sister and they supported each other and ignored his knob end brothers and I took my DS out when he started to get fidgety. I stood in the foyer at the back, so I could still take part.

I know it really helped my dad, and other family members to have my DS at the wake, it was something else to focus on.

When my DH's nan died, we had a 4 hour drive to the funeral, and 4 hours back, and my DS was 18 months. My parents had him for the day, as my DH didn't want him to sit in a car for 8 hours and have to be a good boy at a funeral in between.

When my aunt died at only 52, my DS was 1 (she died the day before his 1st birthday), and again we had a 4 hour trip to the funeral. My DH took the day off work to have my DS (I was still on maternity leave) and I went to the funeral with my parents. My cousin (whose mum we were burying) sent her 3 young children to nursery - not to shield them, or because she thought they shouldn't be at a funeral, but becauseshe needed to mourn her mum and wanted to feel free to do so in whatever manner she felt she needed to, and she didn't feel able to do that with three young children looking on to their devastated mother.

It really is each to their own and depends on the situation. I don't mind babbling, but I do think that fidgety and crying children would be better taken outside - its not fair on them or the other mourners to let them sit there bored and crying!

"There must be a marked difference in saying a family goodbye to a much loved and very elderly relative as opposed to the shocked and crushing anguish experienced by the parents who've lost a child?" Exactly. The funeral I was at (JoJoLapin I think it may have been the same one) was a that of a young father who died suddenly (not trying to do competitive grieving, but I think a sudden death is much harder to accept than one that comes at the end of a long illness). In no way could it have been described as "a celebration, a show and in some ways a party". That child was not learning about death, grief or how to behave in social situations it was bored, completely unaware of what was going on and noisily preventing anyone else from hearing what was going on either). As others have said - if they are too young to sit quietly take them to the wake instead where they can be a welcome distraction.

My cousins children (3 and 4 at the time) came to my auntie's funeral. She died a few days before her wedding so they wore their bridesmaid and pageboy outfits.

As the coffin was coming in and the music was playing, the little girl stood at the front row dancing-I was torn between crying tears of laughter at her and tears of sadness.

Bless, really cheered us all up. BUT-they were quiet during all the speaking, if they hadn't been we would've taken them out.

Her ex husband's brother who collapsed drunkenly at the back, however-AIBU to think drunk people shouldn't attend!? Lol

I have no problem with children at funerals as long as the parents show respect to the bereaved family and to the trouble they have put into arranging a nice funeral for the loved one.
At my cousin's funeral on Monday a small child at the back was wailing its head off just as my cousin's small son and her nephews were bringing up items to the altar to remember her by and the priest was explaining the significance of each item. We could hardly hear the priest and I felt like going down to the back of the church myself and telling the mother to just get out of the Church and show some consideration to my cousin's husband, mother and small children.

Beccaroo, I agree with everything you have said.

I agree with weddings, concerts, funerals or whatever. The moment the child disrupts the proceeding is the moment the parent should get off their arse and leave.

If someone is talking whatever their age. I can't imagine a child saying a reading at a funeral and another child skawking over the reading - that would be incredible sad - to the point in what is the point in anyone saying anything if no one can hear what is being said.

I went to a funeral last year, I stood outside for the whole of the service (to many people to get inside) and the place had kindly put up speakers so we could hear the service. But the gardener was mowing the lawn and we missed the first 10 minutes as everything was drowned out by the sound of the mower. Now I don't object to mowing the lawn - but surely they could have waited for the next funeral that was smaller and everyone was inside with the doors shut and no one outside trying to listen?