Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not use car seats?

143 replies

BlueFergie · 02/04/2012 13:41

Ok not as bad as it sounds.
We are going on hols in June. This will be third year in the same place. We stay on a campsite with amazing facilities and very close to a village with good bus and train links so we don't hire a car. The only issue is the trip from airport to camp site.
First year we got a coach laid on by travel company there and back. Last year coach there but thanks to a fuck up on the travel company's part had to get a taxi back. Kids were 4 and 2. Obviously no seats with us. Not ideal but what could we do, needed to make the plane. We strapped them in and off we went.
This year. Connecting coach charges have gone up and are charged per person so actually cheaper to get taxi there and back. We have a baby now who will be 9 months.
So what to do? I can't really bring three seats with me in the plane. A small booster for Dd who is 5 is fine but DS who is 3 is still well below recommended weight for a booster, and of course the baby is in the rear facing one which I don't want to put in the hold in case it gets damaged and won't be allowed as hand luggage I imagine?
We could pay extra for coach but is that any safer they won't be in car seats there either. Plus coach on way back just about gets us to airport an hour and half before flight. Airport is horribly disorganised and the first year we were stuck in horribly long queues for check in and security do it was awful and rushed and panicky. Last year we were fine because we got taxi and got there early but other people on coach had same experience as we had in prior year. I just don't fancy doing it again with three kids.
So AIBU to get a taxi with no car seats? Or what should I do?

OP posts:
lilbreeze · 02/04/2012 16:35

soupdragon, I wasn't suggesting it was ideal, but surely it's better than strapping the baby into the adult seatbelt with you? The occasion we did it was completely unplanned - we assumed our package holiday transfer would be by coach but in fact it was by taxi. I still think it was better than the alternatives we had at the time.

MerryMarigold · 02/04/2012 16:51

After all the coach crashes going on, am really surprised that people think this is a safer option than a taxi!!! And who uses a carseat in a coach. FGS.

Alltheseboys · 02/04/2012 17:00

From someone who had a car crash last year which wrote off the car and who's friends 8 year old sister died in a car crash on holiday. Why would you put money over a life time of regret? The only thing that saved my kids is the seats. Why would you take the risk?

MerryMarigold · 02/04/2012 17:08

Because life is a risk, and you have to prioritise the risks, decide which you will take or not. The only child I know who has died, died in a coach crash on a holiday (one of those days out).

There's always the option of not going on holiday at all, especially abroad - after all, they are pretty risky in many, many different ways.

lagoonhaze · 02/04/2012 18:04

FFS. Strap children in with you? Put babies into slings?

Why not go the whole hog and just let the children drive if you fancy taking a risk.

Chingchok · 02/04/2012 18:10
Discowomb · 02/04/2012 18:16

Have you looked into car seat law in the country you are going to? We travelled to Turkey last year and while everyone seemed relaxed about it, children were supposed to be in car seats by law, egich came into force in 2010. As a result, the airport taxis were available to book with seats, even if they were a bit basic.

Teaandcakeplease · 02/04/2012 18:16

Haven't read the whole thread, but there are little back packs that turn into booster seats, can you not use those for the older two children and bring a car seat in hand luggage for the baby?

lagoonhaze · 02/04/2012 18:18

Thanks chingchok.

SoupDragon · 02/04/2012 18:23

lilbreeze, it's as equally stupid as strapping the baby in with you using the adult seatbelt. Neither are ideal, neither are safe, one is not better than the other.

The only safe option is to take a car seat. Anything else is a risk. And yes, I have held a baby during a taxi transfer before - that doesn't make it safe.

IDontWantToBeFatAnymore · 02/04/2012 18:26

You are being bloody stupid to not use seats.

"Part of the holiday experience."??? Which bit? The trip to the hospital or the morgue. Seriously. Use a bloody car seat.

giveitago · 02/04/2012 18:29

We travel to southern europe every year to visit mil. Every year we hire a car and pre booked a car seat appropriate to ds's age - every year we got nothing. So I've bought a trunki think. DS loves it because it's a bag and it's also a car seat as well. I'm not happy about ds not being in a car seat. Many of his friends have abandoned them and are happy to travel in a car with the car seat around their neck.

Rubirosa · 02/04/2012 18:31

I disagree SoupDragon, one is better than the other. Obviously a car seat is best, but having a baby in a sling gives you more chance of holding on to it in a crash/sudden breaking than just holding it would, without the risk of crushing it against a seatbelt.

ragged · 02/04/2012 18:36

I have been in similar position & did the Baby Bjorn thing. For better or worse.

Part what I'm not getting is this... Chingchok's video talks about the car travelling at 21mph and the baby pulling 9G when car has to brake. How does that work? If I normally pulled 9G when car braked suddenly at 21mph, I think I would have noticed. Wiki says that a 1 second brake at 22mph pulls 1G (and expect 3G when braking at 110mph). Makes me wonder about the other numbers used in the video being applied to OP's case. Like assumption that adult is 170 lbs (OP may only weigh 95 for all we know).

I am also wondering who's to say that any seat that OP brought would actually fit that model of car taxi correctly.

ragged · 02/04/2012 18:39

Oh, that's the other thing, dummy doesn't try to hold onto baby. I know 9G would be too much for anyone to hold onto, but trying to hold on whilst 1G might make a difference, no?

Read Freakonomics about the safety stats for the 3yo, using booster or not.

bronze · 02/04/2012 18:53

I was wondering also about the size of that 'baby'. So many variables surely

SoupDragon · 02/04/2012 18:58

No, the dummy didn't try to hold onto the fake baby.
Now watch the video again and imagine the baby was being held onto. Result: one, crushed baby as either the adult's head hits the baby at speed or the adult's body crushes the baby. Is this better?

SoupDragon · 02/04/2012 18:59

It is one thing to weigh up the risks and make a decision, quite another to make a decision in misguided ignorance.

SoupDragon · 02/04/2012 19:03

The straps and clasps on a baby sling are not designed to take the force of a baby being flung forward at speed. I don't actually think the average adult's reactions wold be quick enough to grab hold of the baby anyway, even if they could keep hold.

PurpleCrazyHorse · 02/04/2012 19:17

We took our carseat for DD (14mo) in the hold with EasyJet. We had to book the carseat in advance with the airline and we simply wrapped it in plastic, secured with parcel tape and stuck lots of 'Fragile' notices on it. I did wrap it in clear plastic so they could see it was a car seat and hopefully be a bit careful with it (and ensure it went on the right plane!). It arrived in perfect condition and we simply saved the plastic and re-wrapped on the way back.

We were driving while on holiday so it was a must, but I would probably still take a car seat for DD even if it was a transfer. Certainly for the baby but I would use an inflatable booster for the oldest one. You take your chances and you have to be able to live with any consequences.

I think an emergency is a little different as you have to make a quick decision which might be being stranded vs. getting to your destination, especially if you've booked a taxi with car seat and it's not suitable or obviously broken/damaged.

Chingchok · 02/04/2012 19:25

"you have to be able to live with any consequences"

Purple sums it up.

I personally know of two people who lost a baby/child that was not in a carseat. Short, local journeys, relatively low speeds. Dead child.

Whenever it starts to feel like a hassle, I try to keep this in mind. I can understand the various complicated situations (perhaps more than most) but I know myself; I could not live with myself if that "one little trip" caused severe injury, handicap or death. When you look at it like that, any advice from other people seems at best irrelevant, at worst irresponsible.

Because at the end of the day we alone have to live with our decisions and their consequences.

IDontWantToBeFatAnymore · 02/04/2012 19:41

Someone local to us lost her 3 year old twin as she let her ride in the footwell as she couldn't be bothered to strap her in Sad.

SoozyWoozy · 02/04/2012 19:43

The bit I don't understand - OP, you say you don't want to take car seats in case they get damaged, and then I assume you mean would therefore be ineffective if damaged?

Surely the risk of no car seat is much, much greater than using a car seat that might have been knocked about in the hold?

We used a hire car in the USA with pre-booked car seats for 'eligible' children (have to say FiL arranged, not me) - my then 4yo was left without a car seat as that state didn't make it law for her to have one. She was belted into the car for a short drive to the nearest toys r us where we bought an appropriate booster for her. It was the worst short drive of my life; I was terrified that we would have an accident and she would be injured.

Personally, I would never take the risk of not using car seats, no matter how difficult to get them to where I was going, or the cost involved.

bejeezus · 02/04/2012 19:46

I find it hard to get really worked up about car seats because we never used them when i was a kid...i dont think thy were even invented? i presume its the same for nearly all parents on here?

I dont know of any kids killed in RTAs as a result of not using them. I know a fair few people that were killed as pedestrians..

I KNOW that there is more traffic on the roads these days, and its moving faster...but to that extent? dont you think to some extent its a marketing ploy??? tapping in to our never ending parental guilt??....

(Before I get flamed...I DO always put my kids in car seats. Although I wouldnt take one on holiday)

SoozyWoozy · 02/04/2012 19:52

I think if you looked at the differing stats of people injured / killed in RTAs prior to seatbelts, then after seatbelts made mandatory and then children in appropriate child seats / belts would show you that they are effective. Along with the developing safety devices in cars, road travel is much safer than it has been.

Many people are walking away from significant RTAs (or should I say RTCs, whichever is correct!) now, where before the accident / collision would have been fatal.

Swipe left for the next trending thread