...to think this teacher should have checked both sides first?

[EyeOfNewtToeOfFrog]

Relations with school are strained at the moment. We think DD (7) has a mild learning disability - the assessment she went through last year highlighted a number of areas she struggles in, but the overall result was "she's very very bright academically, struggles with the social side; has a little bit of this and a little bit of that but not enough for a firm diagnosis of anything."

The school do not seem to understand the test results and expect her to behave exactly the same as any other kid. This leads to problems. We have a communications book that gets written in every day.

Today the teacher called me over and said DD had 'hugged' another child and wouldn't stop when the other child asked her to. Fair enough, that's not on. Then DD piped up and said: "That's not what happened! I was checking XX's muscles!" Well, this may or may not be true - that's not the point.

My question is - AIBU to think the teacher should have at least ATTEMPTED to get DD's side of the story before telling me what had happened? It feels like she's being picked on TBH.

I'm not coping very well with the situation at the moment (there's a whole back story) so it may well be that I'm being overly negative about the whole thing. Please enlighten me & cheer me up somebody!

Cory, in my primary, we had a child with a disability who couldn't climb stairs, so we shifted an upper KS2 class downstairs for the two years he needed it. Bit of furniture moving and a new label on the door, how hard was that as opposed to him having to leave?

You shouldn't need a bit of paper to have your child's needs met. All DS has is the AS, no other co-morbids. So he needed support that didn't require a lot of cash, just a lot of thought.

Where is the school that is prepared to support my DD with the quirks and issues she has? When her profile & needs are so complex even I have difficulty working her out at times? If even DC with very clearly definable support needs are falling through the cracks - what hope does DD have?

'I am really glad that some people have positive experiences of mainstream and I think that all children should be educated together.
I do not feel i can take the chance with DS again.'

The fact that my son has, and other children haven't makes me more determined to ask why as often as possible.

She has you, the best weapon in the arsenal.
But as I said, it is a long haul.

Well, it is a CoE school, Dust. I expect "a lot of thought" is thin on the ground . It is meant to be an 'outstanding' school though

Yep. Long haul indeed.... Thanks for your support tonight. Much appreciated and

Outstanding often means you have a Gold in hoop jumping and jargon juggling.
And your data is anomaly-free.

I have a horrible feeling I know how the "anomaly-free" (not just data) has been achieved. I'm going on just two anecdotal cases here, so it's hardly conclusive, but even so.... One friend has a DC with a fairly well understood disability, yet has really struggled to get the help specified in their statement. An acquaintance approached the school about a place for a child with a learning disability - and was basically told not to apply. So perhaps the school admit a couple of 'token' SEN pupils with 'easier' support needs but refuse others - so their results are high and the SENCO can remain blissfully unaware of complex needs. Sorry if that sounds harsh and unsupportive of the school.... it probaby is OTT cynical.

No it probably isn't actually Eye. Dust is right about how 'outstanding' OFSTED results are achieved. It's really sad, IMO, that parents are often so ignorant about what they mean and consequently misvalue them.

Is there another school you could try for your dd? it really doesn't sound like this one is working.

Eye, I think one of the problems here is that you are posting individual daily instances in which you feel your daughter is misunderstood, which on their own would not necessarily add up to the school failing to meet her needs (and because you are understandably frustrated and feel aggrieved on her behalf), but when you put them all together, do paint a picture in which your daughter seems trapped in a cycle of being the 'naughty one' when in fact she has quite complex needs which are not being met.

I would post in SN and also take the advice offered by other posters on this. It sounds like you need to go back to the school and say 'this doesn't seem to be working' and then sit down with them again and take it from there. I also don't think a school being outstanding necessarily means they are outstanding at SN provision, it is well-known in our area that the school with the less good OFSTED welcomes children with SN's with open arms and has great facilities, but this makes it very hard to achieve that outstanding in other areas. Perhaps you should talk to other parents in your area who have children with similar issues about where they think the best provision is found; perhaps this school doesn't fit your daughter but another one might be good.

Thanks Dust, Camper and Mumsy. Good morning.

Camper - that's a very good point. We are actually looking for another school at the moment but the prospects are bleak. There is a shortage of places round here and good schools further away have turned us down because we're out of catchment. And much as I now realise that an 'Ofsted outstanding' school is unlikely to be the right one for her, I'm not sure a 'special measures' one would be a better fit. Perhaps I'm being prejudiced.

Mumsyblouse - you're right. I'm crap at painting a comprehensive picture succinctly.... And funny you should mention having a meeting with the school to say "this isn't working" - we had one just last week. Instead of talking through the Executive Function issues (which sum up DD's difficulties fairly comprehensively) like I had requested, the head suggested referring DD to yet another service - a very positive-sounding "behavioural support team". On closer inspection, however, it turns out to be a service for hard-core delinquents from troubled backgrounds, run by the Social Services.... FFS!

I'm still plucking up the courage to post in SN....

Mumsy makes a good point. I read your OP and thought you were very touchy, then I remembered who you were and saw the bigger picture behind it. You are in a situation that many of us with children with SN will recognise; it's like wading through treacle trying to make people understand why your case is different and why asking to have a level playing field is not about a sense of entitlement.

One thing I would advise though is not to show the school to clearly when you feel offended. Smile and tell them that you are grateful for help. And who knows, the SS team may be very good. The SS/CAHMS community team did a lot of good for dd. They had the string-pulling abilities that the school and we did not have, for when it became clear that dd needed something different. In fact, I have always found with an unhelpful school the most useful thing you can do is to get everybody else (SS, EWO etc) on your side. They are people with contacts. And they know a crappy school as well as the next person, being the ones who have to pick up the pieces.

You do also need to discuss with the school how your dd is going to be disciplined, because they will still need some kind of disciplinary measure that takes her needs into account.

One thing that really helped me was reading through the education supplement to the Disability Discrimination Act; it gave very clear examples of what good practice looks like and the kind of balancing act between discipline and reasonable adjustment you should be seeing. It convinced me that dd's HT had simply no idea. But also helped me to see what I should have done differently. You will find it if you google.

Cory, that's a great tip, thanks - I will read up on the DDA education. You're right, I am very touchy about this! And thanks for telling me about your CAHMS/SS experience - that is heartening. Luckily we have a very good EP who is very supportive... perhaps I will ask her for advice too.

I read half the post but not the rest sorry as I was getting quite annoyed at some of the replies. My DS has SN, no official dx yet (but that doesn't mean the problems aren't still there), but does things like this, he's not really got an awareness of personal space either and the school kept putting it down to him being naughty until a meeting with the EP and ive also got camhs on board now. Maybe you should pop over to the SN board, you'd get far more helpful answers

:) thanks sockpuppet!

Forgot to add sorry, my DS's side is also hardly ever listened to either makes my blood boil sometimes, if they'd just listen to our children now and then they may get a better understanding of what goes on in their heads and how they cope in certain situations and would learn how to manage situations like these better.

I hope you get it sorted OP. I teach in a very inclusive school and many of the children we teach have similar "subtle" difficulties like the ones you describe. You are absolutely right that just because she does not fit into a "box" for a diagnosis doesn't mean she doesn't have these difficulties. In the particular incident you describe I can understand the teacher's POV. It doesn't really matter if your DD was checking her classmates muscles or not it matters that she did not stop when she was asked. However, if these are precisely the things that she struggles with then you would hope that the incident was dealt with but that your DD was helped to understand WHY it was inappropriate.

Thesockpuppet I totally agree, listening first without judging is so important. There are ALWAYS at least 2 sides to any given situation.

I quite agree that what DD did was not right to do it - and deserved a consequence. BUT - teacher please just listen to both sides first! It's just not helpful to only listen to the friend and not DD. And why not help DD and the said friend to talk it through together - perhaps the friend saying "I asked you to stop because it was hurting me" might have got through to DD in a way that a grown up explaining it didn't.... and it might have given the teacher an indication of what DD hadn't understood.

that's a very good point
with ds unless you specifically explain why he isn't to do something he wouldn't really understand why he was being told off

Yes, I think that's the case with DD too. The trouble is that DD knows "in theory" what the rules are - so she knows that hurting people is wrong (not that she sets out to hurt people - she is not malicious like that) - but in the heat of the moment DD does not seem to "read" the signs that she IS hurting someone. I have found that I need to teach her to look for the very specific signs: "can you see how that kid looks cross and upset now - that's because you didn't listen when they said "stop" so now they don't want to play with you. Perhaps if you apologised it might make them change their mind."

This is what I would like school to understand. But because DD can reason (and argue) at a much higher level of sophistication (than most of her class mates), they think she is more mature than she is.

That is the same with DS, he had a similar problem at his taekwondo, he would cilmb onto his instructor and hug him and not let go when asked and when I took him aside and told him he couldn't do it he was heartbroken and replied with "But I love him and want to give him a hug to show that", he couldn't understand why that would be appropriate and needed it properly explained to him, but if I'd just gave him into trouble he wouldn't completely understand why and would do it again to someone else as he wouldn't fully 'get' personal space and inappropriateness.

Thinking you are wrong is not the same as being rude.

I have a lot of experience and so do many other MNers.

having a child with SN does not preclude you from being an educational professional.

I am both.

You are having a massive tantrum because your practice has been challenged.
You use inappropriate language and your ideas on 'SN children' needing more discipline are deeply worrying.

All professionals working with children need to constantly examine their practice. That means even you.