In wanting to tell my friend her children are rude

[misspedantic]

I've just found this site and I'm loving the feedback I've had from other post. This problem is ongoing and I'm hoping for some advice...

About 2 months ago a friend called me to say she was upset that one of her friends has call her 6yr old ds and her 8yr old dd rude.

At first I was on her side, saying that her friend was rude for saying that. But over the past few weeks I have notice how rude they actually are and that she says nothing to them when they are being rude. The don't talk to adults, even if you ask them a question and she never pulls them up about this but instead answers for them.

examples:

1. we were out and her dd turned to her mother and asked when are they (meaning me and my dd) going home. I said that was a very nice thing to say but my friend said nothing to her dd.

2. we were on the train and her children didn't want to sit next to my dd which made her cry. When I finally had enough I told them to stop making a fuss and sit down, my friend said nothing. When they had sat down her dd kept on moving away from my dd saying "her coat is touching me".

3. the other day her dd whispered something into her mother ear. I heard my name and asked what she had said. My friend said "oh nothing". I then turned to her dd and told her that it was rude to whisper about people. Again my friend said nothing.

The problem is, my friend has mentioned that she doesn't think her children are rude. Other people have mentioned it to me, even without me saying anything to them. The next time she brings it up WIBU in saying "well yeah they are".

I have an 8 year old dd who would never say or do any of these things but as she grows up I do pull her up on what could hurt other people's feelings or be perceived as rude.

If their mother does not make them socially aware then what can anyone do?

TBH, doesn't sound that rude to me, just silly childish things, whispering, etc ...

It is quite normal for young children not to answer adults (especially their parents). They just sort of look at them blankly. So on that count I would not be offended.

And asking when you & your dd were going home, sort of makes me laugh. I was at dinner with friends when their 11yo asked her mother "When is she going home?" I found it hilarious. She is a lovely girl and was just wondering whether I was staying for dinner or longer. They of course were mortified but it actually sparked a fun conversation.

My daughter always asks very loudly when Granny is going home and I have to say I am always keen to find out!

The whispering is normal, though they need reminding that it is not acceptable. I wouldn't have picked up another person's child on it, but if my child did I would ask them not to.

But given the anxiety over playdates, I'd stop these. Just say the kids don't seem to be getting along very well, let's meet up on our own. That's not rude, it's honest and kind.

I would be mortified if any of my children made another child cry by excluding them and making mean comments like 'her coat is touching me'

Re the coat thing, I've had my own dc get stroppy with each other over stuff like this - it's normal, but the parent shouldn't be tolerant of it. Your friend should have told her dd to behave and to stop being so rude and nasty. My dd is 4 and won't talk to adults - this is because she is very shy. I would give a bit of leeway if a child is shy, but staring at you and refusing to answer, or saying shh to you is just rude. I wouldn't have been able to ignore that, but really her mum should have dealt with it - not put you in the position where you had to.

I hate correcting the behaviour of other people's dc, if their parents are present - that's their job. Equally, I hate it if other people jump in and tell mine off - that's my job. I would hate to put my friend in the position where they had to deal with my dc's behaviour - it's embarrassing for them and would piss me off too, so best avoided by parents pulling their own kids up when necessary.

I agree that it would be best to see each other without the dc - that way you stand a chance of maintaining the friendship.

Lequeen yes, much as I like them as people and miss their friendship they were. When we finally broached this with them it was after many, many incidents where their DCs behaviour had completely dominated and in some cases ruined events. Their reaction was normally either to do absolutely nothing or to shrug and say "Oh, they're all the same aren't they?"!!

I don't think "being shy" can be used as a get out of jail free card when DC get older. Just means as a parent you have to work harder at teaching them social skills. My mother didn't allow us to be shy though my middle sister was. Said shy middle sister now has an amazingly interesting high powered job that involves networking and socialising with politicians, celebrities and the royals so my mother did pretty well .

I totally agree, kerala. Even if a child is quiet and doesn't easily talk to other adults, they can at least reply to questions politely. I don't think the OP or her DD will miss the friend's DC, quite frankly. They sound utterly charmless.

It might be borne of shyness, but it's your job as a parent to explain to them that it looks rude, and, shy or not, you reply when spoken to.

Some good advice offered on this thread I think.

The DCs of a friend of mine are very similar to how you describe these children, OP. Being rude/mean to my DCs and their mother either not "hearing" or "noticing" or just failing to pull them up on it. Ironically, she actually thinks her DCs are great and wonderful kids, which made me question my own judgement - until I spoke to mutual friends who incidentally had the same views of her DCs as me.

The way I dealt with the issue was to avoid any time where our DCs would be together. This is obviously quite difficult at times (ie birthday parties or get-togethers of other friends with all the DCs) - especially with Facebook - but I will not tolerate my DCs being treated meanly by kids who are not taught how to treat others.

I am sure that the same children will be going through school and other activities with very few constant friends (as the DCs of my friend are) which is an absolute shame and an issue that should slap any caring mother right in the face.....

Whether I consider a child rude depends a lot on their age. I would expect dcs of 8 and 6 to speak to adults. I insisted on "thank you" from a very young age with my dcs (probably between 2-3) and other dcs - I remember one particular stand-off between me and DN when she was about 3 and refused to say thank you for the biscuit I gave her so I held onto it until she said it, she dug her heels in and tried to prise crumbs from between my fingers....but SIL never made her say it so not her fault really. Hello and Goodbye I would expect a bit later, and yes very annoying when adults do the "have you lost your tongue" thing. I would refuse to talk if someone said that to me.

OP I think you should ask a few more questions about why the person thought her dcs were rude. If she says "she said they don't speak to adults" you could reply with something like "well some kids are shy and find that hard but we have to help them get over it so they don't come across as rude."

If they speak rudely to you or your dd I would tell them directly, otherwise it's up to the mum really. Your dd needs you to stand up for her, but also I think you should encourage her to stand up for herself. You could teach her to say "don't talk to me like that" or "stop being rude to me" in a loud and firm voice. It can get a bit annoying if a child always cries or tells tales and they do need to learn to sort squabbles out themselves.

I'd be very upset if you just said "Well yeah they are rude."
You could be supportive by saying, "Well when they do X I think it may come across badly because..." statements. Which is on the fence & supports your friend to see things how others might.

Out of interest what is your friend's social behaviour like? Is she rude?

The problem with shyness is that it can turn into socially inept. I think that most shy children will more likely be shy with their peer group but will repsond to an adult by the age of 8 or 6, even if only by smiling and / or nodding or showing some acknowledgement. Children who are not taught any social graces by their parents grow up irritating all of those around them.

I think it's very sad that so many posters have very little concept of childhood development.They seem to regard kids as mini-adults but they are not they are children.they think differently have different understanding, different worries and fears to an adult.
measuring a child's social skills and confidence against an adult's and judging them as 'rude' when thety are found wanting, is unreasonable an counterproductive.
Also I would like to point out to those of you with 2 and 3 yos who always say please and thankyou and chat sociably to adults, you might be in for a shock as they get older and more self conscious!!

ariadne - I think you are right to a point. It is unreasonable to expect the same from a child as from an adult.

However, the children's mother is not pulling them up on rudeness and this is something that 8 and 6 year olds are certainly not too young to be taught about. It's not ok to just sit there ignorantly and say nothing. This is the mother's fault, not the children's.

Don't really agree Ariadne. No kids are not mini-adults which is why we have to show them and model how to behave, at an age-appropriate level. 2 and 3 year olds are capable of saying thank you etc, some do it more readily than others but if we don't start teaching them social skills at that age we can't expect them to suddenly do it when they are 6 or 7. We recently had a party for dd's 6th birthday and it was obvious which kids had been taught manners at home. I had children announcing to me "I'm hungry. Where's the food?" then it was the same ones walking up to me at the end of the party in front of the parents and saying "I want my party bag now" and the parents thought that was a fine thing to say. If I heard my dcs speak so rudely, I would tell them they weren't getting a party bag.

They do sound quite rude and the mums parenting seems quite lax

obvious which kids had been taught manners at home.... I had children announcing to me "I'm hungry. Where's the food?" ...and saying "I want my party bag now" and the parents thought that was a fine thing to say.

Were their parents actually there when both these things were said? I have a DC who would say things like that. Consistently. Quite embarrassing. No matter how many punishments or terrible consequences. Very very very dense kid. Takes teaching skills beyond me to drill manners into his head.

I have 3 others (older & younger) who would never speak like that; I've been complimented on their lovely manners. Same parent. Same style of parenting at home (same amount of parental efforts at teaching basic life skills). Different kids.

The parents were only there at the end, and didn't comment on the rudeness. It takes longer with some kids I guess, but would have been nice to see the parents asking them to say it again more politely!

Missed this for a while, so guess the thread has died, but....Ariadne you are spot on. Children are not mini-adults, and it's funny to hear how so many people air their stong opinions on this, without apparently having much of a clue about child development.

I agree too with Ariadne and bugster. I took a look at Misspedantics other posts and one said her dd hits her, another that the school called her in for 'scaring' her child, another about dd not eating at times so misspedantic has a problem with herself and I feel sorry for dd

ariadne1, at what age might you expect a child to respond when you say Hello?

Ah ha I have this exact same problem it gets to me so much when my friends son was outside he shouted door indicating he wanted ME to open the door . when I pulled him up on it he laughed in my face and was like I don't care ! At that point I had to ask my friend to leave because I would of ended up yelling at him !

Honestly if my kids are rude I'm on it like a moth to a flame cannot stand it and my daughter started copying the behaviour . It does grate on me