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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

that the police get such massive pensions...

499 replies

TakenYears · 25/03/2012 09:57

....and from the age of 50.

Other public sectar workers get nothing remotely resembling that.

OP posts:
ledkr · 26/03/2012 21:35

Wow have just read abit more. taken I trained as an rmn and worked on a secure unit and cdt for a long time. I then went into socail work and specialised in cp and now adoption. Its very very stressfull but i do get to go home at the end of my shift,dont have days off cancelled and can enjoy my leave uninterupted. Oh yes and i also pay a reasonable amount into my pension and not hundred of pounds each month. It all relative.

DeepPurple · 26/03/2012 21:38

My body armour and belt weigh a stone! Coupled with the boots which have steel plating on the underside, it's a wonder that anyone ever manages to catch someone in a foot chase!

OP - I hope your dbil is the exception and has future officers grinning at the fact he got 50 years out of his pension!

OP you have taken a pasting. The reason for that is that you steadfastly refuse to realise that your job and a police officer's job is totally different. Personally, I think nurses are under paid. I don't know enough about the pension to comment but I would guess it's not great. The massive advantage of being a nurse is the bursary you get through uni. Sadly, it doesn't make up for the rubbish pay and the shit you have to deal with - literally at times Wink

Had you come in here and asked if the terms and conditions that nurses get we're fair in comparison with m.ps, footballers or coppers I would have agreed with you. Instead, you come across as hating the police and resent them for getting a decent pension.

I would not do this job for the money or pension alone. Many officers quit in the first 5 years as it's a lot harder than most expect. Emotionally, physically and the impact it had on your personal life.

I am a police officer because I want to help people. I am above the abuse and I put on a professional face, however, it can sometimes hurt. Many times I have left a child that I don't think is being looked after but can't prove, a death of a young person, a grisly murder scene, a dreadful suicide or just a sad situation. Many times I have cried. I'm only human. It drives me mad that when someone gets to court they get a shit sentence, even though I have put many many hours into the paperwork.

Nobody that doesn't actually do my job can possibly know what it's like. The best thing about it is being in the police family. Every single officer is like a brother or sister even if I don't know them well enough to know their name. I know that if I'm in a dangerous situation that every single officer possible will get there as soon as they possibly can. They would take a punch for me; as I would them. There are laughs, tears, happiness, sadness and every other emotion possible. Sometimes within the same shift.

I wouldn't change my job for the world. Even though it might mean I have to die to save you.

PigletJohn · 26/03/2012 21:42

hello Beryl

I had a look at GAD website but could not find any life expectancy rates per occupation, though there are tables of mortality per occupation for various causes of death.

I'm not trying to needle you, I found the figure quite disturbing and wanted to see the source, I was interested to see how up to date it was and what life expectancy was compared to people retired from other occupations.

Have not been able to find anything. Was your email from GAD or from someone who had obtained a figure from GAD?

TakenYears · 26/03/2012 21:46

"Instead, you come across as hating the police and resent them for getting a decent pension."

I hope not. There's always been a mutual respect between the police and the nursing profession as long as I've known it.

OP posts:
PigletJohn · 26/03/2012 22:00

sorry to harp on

I've been searching the web, not just GAD and ONS, and the "7 years life expectancy" crops up a lot. But I haven't found the evidence I was hoping for. I did however find these two which might be useful

www.natwest.com/personal/investments/g1/retirement-planning/retirement-planning-explained/life-expectancy-explained.ashx

wiki.answers.com/Q/Average_life_span_of_a_police_officer

This is not written to annoy, I am genuinely interested to know the truth.

BerylStreep · 26/03/2012 22:06

Piglet, if you PM me I am happy to pass on what I have - just don't want to post on an open forum.

It wasn't me who said 7 years post retirement, although I have heard anecdotal evidence of that.

mummytowillow · 26/03/2012 22:08

Are you for real!! Hmm

They put 11% of their salaries into it, so its not like their getting it for free!!

PigletJohn · 26/03/2012 22:11

Beryl,

Thanks will do

I'm not trying to get anyone's back up, I really want to see what's happening.

SixtyFootDoll · 26/03/2012 22:12

Haven't read whole thread, but we get a good pension because each month we pay 11% of our wages each month into the police pension scheme

ThatVikRinA22 · 26/03/2012 22:22

the other bobbies on here have explained it all, but the recruitment and training is much the same now, as it the nvq 3 & 4, just that the training is no longer residential.

i did 2 years as a special.
i then applied to a neighbouring force, and it took me a further 2 years to pass the several rounds of tests throughout the recruitment process.
i then did 17 weeks of daily classroom based training on law and legislation, policy and process, intensive personal safety training (which at the end of the day, consists of you, a can of pepper spray and a big iron bar....not much protection really against much of what we face daily these days) and fitness testing - i just did mine again 2 weeks ago.
this is also topped up with 2 2 week stints back in training at 6 monthly intervals
a driving course
and regular training every 10 weeks for which we give up one of our precious days off.

do people really really think that the police are worth so little, that they are all thick knuckle draggers without an o level between us?

add to that the stress of the job, the extra weight of the equipment you carry which causes all kinds of back and neck problems, and the strains of a varying shift system, including nights, i work 6 days on the trot, for between 56 and 58 hours without overtime.

i believe that the shifts, and the stress, do shorten life expectancy of most serving officers.

I am sorry your day was stressful taken, but we deal with death probably just as often, and then have to move to the next job, within hours, our job always carries an element of the unknown, but quiet shifts are a rarity due to numbers of front line officers dwindling, when i tell people im a pc, most dont actually believe that im frontline, they cannot comprehend some of the things i have dealt with. It is the type of job you simply cannot explain to anyone, ever, not even my DH understands fully what i do. The other officers who have posted on this thread have been way more eloquent than i, but i honestly wouldnt know where to begin. Even being a special bore no resemblance to the job of front line response officer that i do now.

It really really upsets me still when people just see us as some unanimous mass, because we are human, individuals, im not some tool of the state, im just me, who joined in her naivety, because i wanted to help people. I work so so hard for my salary which on commencement of service was £22,680. Yes there are incremental pay advances, but experience is worth paying for, and the increments cease at 10 years, and of course, dear old mr winsor has also frozen incremental pay increases for 2 years, and then asked for a 1% increase on years 3 and 4.

i have not been a pc for long really, im still in probation (which in this job is 2 years!) so before i did this i did all kinds of shitly paid work, from garage attendant to 10 years as an optical assistant. Police dont just exist in some bubble where nothing touches them.

why are we not trying to be more understanding of all difficult to do jobs? i couldnt nurse. so i dont. but i dont moan about those who do.

i just dont get what this thread was about? How can anyone declare that those in a particular role are overpaid when they have no concept of what the job entails or bother to even find out the figures with any accuracy?

i hate that because of the job i do, which i do for the best of intentions, i am fair game for everyone to have a pop at, and i cant escape it even on a parenting forum.

i earn just over 25k. i work 56 - 58 hours over a 6 day week. i pay a large % into my pension, for which i will only accrue for, at best, if i live to and work to 60, 22 years. its not going to pay me a kings ransom. it will pay me the equivalent of a part time wage. We have no union as such (we have a federation) and no industrial rights, - ie = no legal right to strike. the ballot is just that - a ballot. big deal. a ballot was held some years ago, for all the good that did.

why, does another public sector worker, whom i would support in their own endeavours to get a better deal, want to do me down so much?

anyway, this is my last essay on this thread. im positively fed up with it all. In the end, the public get the police they deserve if you want to pay 15k and scrap the pension, think about that, because its true.

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar · 26/03/2012 22:34

dear old mr winsor has also frozen incremental pay increases

ditto where I am. I believe (but I could be wrong) that nurses and teachers are still getting theirs.

Do I resent that? Do I think that because we're being shafted that nurses and teachers should be too? Of course I don't!

The police officers posting here have been brilliant ambassadors for their profession btw. We're lucky to have you (and I dread to think who we'd have if the pay was £15k! Hmm )

DeepPurple · 26/03/2012 22:58

Well said Vicar!

SixtyFootDoll · 26/03/2012 23:00

Well put Tutu.
If I wasn't so knackered after my 12 hr shift I would be as eloquent.
But dealing with offenders who have MH and dependency issue with no break is very draining.

giggly · 26/03/2012 23:21

sorry I havent read the whole post, but life expectancy for retired PO was asked in page 2.
The figures for 5-10 years was from studies done in the 80's and was mainly conducted on officers serving before/during and after the pay and condition changes in 1980.
Factors such as drinking, smoking and lifestyle where all major contributing factors to shortened life expectancy. These were the days when it was very normal to drink on shift.
There was some studies conucted in the 90's about shift patterns and life expectancy however these were not exclusive to PO
I was a PO nurse for years and have known many retired PO go on to have as successful second careers.

They paid into their pension and get what their due. My big bug bear was the housing allowance, but thats another storyWink

DeepPurple · 26/03/2012 23:25

Well there isn't a housing allowance now. There hasn't been for some time. Although the restrictions on where you can live are still in place Hmm and you can be disciplined for not getting your new address cleared prior to moving. I always thought this was a scare tactic until it happened to a colleague of mine. She had notified them of the change of address but hadn't asked for permission to move.

PigletJohn · 27/03/2012 00:03

hi giggly

these studies you mention - did you actually see them yourself? Can you find a reference or link?

ThatVikRinA22 · 27/03/2012 00:18

i found this study from america but reading it it appears all police officers share the same types of common problem associated with shifts and stress

interesting

vigglewiggle · 27/03/2012 11:52

When you read all of this thread it doesn't act as a great recruiting tool! Good job the pension scheme is sound and the terms and conditions are good. Oh hang on a minute...

catsmother · 27/03/2012 12:05

I think that proves, Vigglewiggle, that the people who do decide to join the police aren't in it for the money despite what some ignorant others think. There are 1001 other careers which pay far far better and are far less dangerous/unpleasant/frustrating/tiring/demanding .... yet people do still want to join regardless. It's a pity the minority who are so disparaging don't properly think about what the job can entail and give credit to those who do it because they want to do something worthwhile for the good of others, and who put up with all the shit because they recognise, overall, they're doing a vital job.

8175looselipssinkships · 27/03/2012 12:14

vigglewiggle Grin Although we have had to put up with so much secrecy, moving, security stress, trying to think up excuses for why he works funny hours etc Grin, my husband has never ever been happier than he was when he got accepted into the Police Service. He literally loves his job and he has had a few before hand. I've known him for 20 years and the past five are the happiest I've ever seen him. In a strange sort of way it is like he was born to do it and I am grateful that although he never thought it would be an option for him growing up, circumstances have changed albeit slightly and he has had a chance to do what he loves.

Now I really have to leave this thread because I keep having to name change and I'm getting very confused Grin

OhdearNigel · 27/03/2012 21:59

VIAT - you said you weren't eloquent but that was a fucking brilliant post

OhdearNigel · 27/03/2012 22:03

She had notified them of the change of address but hadn't asked for permission to move.

Happened to a colleague of mine as well. She was disciplined and moved station to somewhere totally shit as a punishment

giggly · 27/03/2012 23:42

no sorry cant find link, but Dr M Mitchell conducted various bits of research from Strathclyde and other Scottish forces in the 90's. Housing allowance stopped in 94ish but officers claiming before that date regardless of rank still receive it. So in theory a ACC will still get an allowance even though pay and conditions have clearly moved on from pre 1980.

I for one very much value our Police service, but there is no doubt that some of the petty rules and policies are pathetic and are the cause of a great deal of stress.

PigletJohn · 28/03/2012 00:23

sorry, giggly, I meant I was trying to find some data to support the statement that retired police officers have an abnormally short life expectancy.

I have been trying hard but have not yet been able to find any data to support it.

I just tried again using "Dr M Mitchell" but still no joy.

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