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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

that the police get such massive pensions...

499 replies

TakenYears · 25/03/2012 09:57

....and from the age of 50.

Other public sectar workers get nothing remotely resembling that.

OP posts:
DPrince · 26/03/2012 17:43

I assume you don't agree with the armed forces pension either? Because they get more than you? The reasons the police get more is the nature of their job (ie risking their lives daily, to protect us) AND they pay more. You don't want to accept it.

TapirBackRider · 26/03/2012 17:43

Taken It's not the police's fault or doing that the pensions issue is as it is at the moment.

It may not be fair, but it is not their doing, and they should not be flamed or denied it because of things outwith their control.

The blame for nurses pensions lies with successive governments, who overlook the issue.

TapirBackRider · 26/03/2012 17:45

Badger - it was aimed at the OP, you and anyone who wants to argue without any factual backup. It gives those of us who actually know what they are talking about some idea of the type of poster we are debating against.

TakenYears · 26/03/2012 17:45

"Their rate of contributions is TWICE yours"

It may be - but the extra few percentages don't correspond with outcomes. The tax payer is also footing the bill.

OP posts:
Codandchops · 26/03/2012 17:45

Tbh badger if you spout forth all these figures it's pretty reasonable to asume you could back them up. As you evidently can't then people will know to treat your posts with the skepticism they deserve.

Personally I think you are talking bollocks and I suspect you know it - but then that's not the point of your posts is it?

TakenYears · 26/03/2012 17:47

"It may not be fair, but it is not their doing,"

I agree. It's not their doing. The government make the rules.

OP posts:
badgeroncaffeine · 26/03/2012 17:52

Codandchops I've told you you'll get no considered response from me. How many more times?

And these people asking for page upon page of arguments and evidence to back up the fact the police are overpaid, this is a Mumsnet forum, not the Supreme Court!

OK, let's pay roadsweepers £30k or more a year...you provide the evidence why not.

iloveminieggs · 26/03/2012 17:54

Yabvvvvvu unless u know the facts don't start such a stupid thread

whencanigohome · 26/03/2012 17:56

Badger - you are the one who has repeatedly claimed that everything you are writing is a fact. I'm simply asking where your facts are from.

The police officers you know and the police officers you have happened to come across have all told you the details of their qualifications, skills and experience? How do you persuade every police officer to tell you these things? What is your sample size? What rank do these officers hold?

You have read about police qualifications, skills and experience? Where?

Taken - Were the nurses who joined the NHS pension scheme in 1982 really told they would have to work 47 years before they could retire? Or has the scheme changed recently? The police pension scheme has changed, a 20 year old police officer who has joined the police today will not retire at 50.

The issue of the comparative pension contributions of nurses and police officers was well covered last night.

DPrince · 26/03/2012 17:57

Because, badger, that's how is grown ups debate. When we state something as fact, we back it up. Rather than -making up- spouting figures that have no basis.

badgeroncaffeine · 26/03/2012 18:01

whencanigohome I'm not going to write a long piece on this issue. It would take an hour or more to fully evidence it, and this is just a Mumsnet forum. But let's just say that the police need no qualifications and many have pretty much that...FACT. Maybe if the police did the job they are paid to do more of the time, people wouldn't care.

badgeroncaffeine · 26/03/2012 18:04

OK DPrince let's see your fully argued, evidenced and researched study on why the police are worth the pay and pensions they get.

BarryNormansSofa · 26/03/2012 18:05

''But let's just say that the police need no qualifications and many have pretty much that...FACT. ''

badger you really must know alot of police officers to make all these assumptions.

either that or you have an axe to grind .

anyway I said in an earlier post which was deleted - still dont know why [confused ] MN will not explain - cant wait to tell DH when he comes home that not only he can compare his pay with Doctors but he is thick !

DPrince · 26/03/2012 18:09

My argument is they pay more in - fact. Several people have posted links. They have a dangerous job - fact. See job description. You would write a long post but don't have anything to back it up.

badgeroncaffeine · 26/03/2012 18:14

They can well afford to "pay more in" as they are paid far too much in the first place!

whencanigohome · 26/03/2012 18:16

Badger - you have spent around eighteen hours on this thread. That is enough time for you to fully evidence your point of view.

I admit I can't provide a counter to the 'no qualifications' line. I was a graduate entrant so I didn't look into the details. Does the Windsor Report's conclusion that applicants should be qualified to A-Level standard placate you?

If you could expand on what you perceive the 'job' police are paid to do is; and quantify how little time they currently spend doing it your final sentence would carry more weight.

BarryNormansSofa · 26/03/2012 18:17

Badger you really do take the Biscuit

Still waiting MN ....

Codandchops · 26/03/2012 18:19

Badger you evidently have an axe to grind....I don't expect or even WANT a response from you because you have no proper response to give - you cannot even back up your own arguments. You are just spouting opinion without anything to support it and in not doing so you have lost the argument. Sorry dear.

MrsHeffley · 26/03/2012 18:22

£36K after 10 years-gawd!!!!Shock

Do soldiers get that?Do even those in quiet areas or doing a desk job get that?

Blimey if they all get that I can see why we're in the shit we are.

badgeroncaffeine · 26/03/2012 18:24

No, there may be 18 hours between my first and last post, doesn't mean I've spent 18 hours on it...blimey!!

And I really can't be bothered explaining in detail that the police should be investigating criminals, not going around searching people at random, keeping innocent people's DNA on file, hassling motorists, avoiding well founded suspicions of corruption/cronyism and gross incompetence, amongst others. If the police did these things, attention wouldn't be drawn to their very generous pay and pension arrangements.

badgeroncaffeine · 26/03/2012 18:25

Codandchops You accused me of being the OP just because I agreed...pathetic. As I've said 3 times now, you will get no discussion from me.

BarryNormansSofa · 26/03/2012 18:26

ah I see the axe that needs grinding Grin

saggarmakersbottomknocker · 26/03/2012 18:28

Blimey there's some tripe posted on this thread.

Taken - you won't have your mind changed. Your only argument is that it's unfair but you have patently ignored the posts explaining to you that the pension isn't as enhanced as you believe.

Badger - you have a chip on your shoulder the size of a house. And again have no argument as to why you think it's unfair. Just because you believe it to be unfair doesn't make it so.

beepbeep · 26/03/2012 18:32

Badger - I know in the Force I work in all new recruits require 2 A levels or the equivalent of. An awful lot of Police officers have degree (I do), my DH has a masters. These qualifications (at the time of joining) were not required, but certainly are taken into consideration in the joining process. Just because educational qualifications were not required does not mean anyone got in. Often there are skills much more important to doing the job.

I really do wish I didn't join the Police nearly 10 years ago, yes the pension is not bad, but I pay a considerable amount for it, but more importantly I sacrifice an awful lot each day I go into work. I miss a lot of time with my DCs due to the shifts I have to work (my hours are fixed and I no input into what I want to work as I believe a lot of nurses, particularly part time ones do), for each shift I work, most of which go over time, I work 30 minutes for free. We are expected to be in at least 20 mins each each shift, so that's nearly an hour a day I work for nothing.

I cannot begin to think of the number of times I have had things planned with my DCs on days off, to be told that I am now working that day. I have had to alter holidays due to court dates, I even had to go to court during maternity leaves.

Other people work hard and do very good jobs, though I'm not sure what other job could be compared with the police, the closest i suppose is the military due to the lack of control we have over our hours, working conditions, holidays, etc etc. (we have a leave embargo on for all the summer holidays due to the Olympics).

I have not read all of this thread but did read bits about social workers and ambulance staff being on the front line and being attached, unfortunately this does happen, but if they are in the least bit suspicious that any violence may occur they do not go into situations without police, thus transferring the threat of violence to us. The same in hospitals, the security ring us if there are any problems.

Last week I was on shift with 2 other officers - minimum manning is meant to be 12. I was the only one of the 3 of us who was immediate trained (drive on immediates), I dealt with a sudden death (& his hysterical family) a burglary, a Facebook harassment (!!), a hunt protest, a missing person (found the next day by myself & colleague hanging), along with all sorts of other bits & pieces and trying to fit in the mass of paperwork. I worked 2 hours over and my overtime was denied due to lack of funds - missed picking up DD and she then missed having her friend to play - have to accept it :(

I started my police training at the same time as a good friend started her teaching job, she takes home more per month than I do, I started on less than she did. However she doesn't get the pension I do; however I pay a lot into it, I put myself at risk for it, I sacrifice my family life for it and I also believe my health suffers for it. I know that the average police officer dies 3 years after retirement due to the stress placed on their bodies during their service, I think this has improved but not drastically.

It may not be proportionate to others pennons, but as others have said we have no say in what we get, we can't strike/threaten to strike to better our terms & conditions.

whencanigohome · 26/03/2012 18:35

Badger - a largely unoriginal and unsubstantiated opinion founded on popular misconceptions that add nothing to the debate.