that the police get such massive pensions...

[TakenYears]

....and from the age of 50.

Other public sectar workers get nothing remotely resembling that.

"if you pay more in you get more out."

Not THAT much though - not without the help of a big chunk from taxpayers!!

As I posted earlier, the pension has traditionally been high because the average life expectancy of a Police Officer after retirement is 7 years.

Add up how much each officer pays in over 30 years and divide it by 7 years. Most pay in more than they will take out.

So what if public sector job pensions are subsidised by the government. Who do you think pays for the pension for those that never worked, are claiming disability, benefits, had a pension shortfall? I don't begrudge those people their pensions should they begrudge mine?

bloody hell scurry - had no idea, best of luck getting back out there, gently does it, take care and stay safe. x

Thanks- went back to work for 18 months after it happened and then suddenly went " bang". It's still the best job in the world.

Scurry - that's rubbish glad you are better now. Maybe we should all meet up and discuss what we are going to do with our massive pension

lumpy what do you do? I think I want your job

OP fwiw I think nurses should have better salaries. I think most do a sterling job.

OK, TakenYears. Let's just pretend that this is a sensible discussion, and that actual facts will make a difference.

Let's pretend that if we use actual figures, you'll see why the police get more. Just for clarity, I'll declare that I am a Registered Nurse (just, I will lose my registration in September because I haven't worked for the last few years).

We'll just play with figures, and use exactly the same data for both Police and Nurse. We'll use the 1995 (more generous) NHS Pension Scheme rules, and the (more generous) Police Pension Scheme rules. So:

Nominal Pensionable Salary: £25,000
Years of service: 30
Age at retirement: 60

Nurse:
Annual Pension: £9375 (£781.25 pcm).
Lump Sum: £28,125

OR
Annual Pension: £7196 (£599.67 pcm)
Lump Sum: £47,973

Police:
Annual Pension: £12500 (£958 pcm NET).
Lump Sum: £77506

Contribution for Nurse based on Salary of £25,000 (Tier 3): 6.5%

Contribution for Police based on salary of £25,000 (Tier 1): 10.1%

So, doing the maths.

Out of the same £25,000 annual salary, a Nurse pays 35.6% less in pension contributions than a Police officer.

Commuting the maximum possible lump sum, with a reduced annual pension, a Nurse will get £47,973 while a Police Officer will get £77506. So in terms of lump sum payment, the Nurse gets 38.1% less than the Police Officer.

In terms of lump sum payment, the Police Officer gets a 2.5% proportional advantage over the Nurse (given the fact that they get 38.1% more than the Nurse, but paid 35.6% more in contributions).

Comparing the annual pensions, the Nurse will get £7196, while a Police Officer will get £12500. However, the Personal Tax threshold is £7475. The Nurse will therefore get the full £7196, while the Police Officer will get £11495 (due to the 20% tax on the £5025 above threshold, which equals £1005). The Nurse therefore gets 37.4% less than the Police Officer.

In terms of Annual Pension, the Police Officer gets a 1.8% proportional advantage over the Nurse (given the fact that they get 37.4% more than the Nurse, but paid 35.6% more in contributions).

So, to conclude, the Police Officer, for facing all of the 'normal' abuses in their work, and having no contractual rights, gains 2.5% on their lump sum and 1.8% on their annual pension.

That doesn't include consideration of the new, less favourable terms of either profession's revised pension schemes (because there are too many variables with the new schemes).

So, TakenYears - does that address it for you? Do you think that Nurses, who have the protection of team working, Doctors on call 24 hours per day if a patient deteriorates, Security on site, with Police back-up if required, Crash teams, Intensive Care and High Dependency units within reach, etc., etc., really suffer for the 1.8-2.5% lesser pension?

heard of OTBT....we could all hide in there....start a camp fire....

scurry - you are rather perfectly illustrating the point re the job being at the sharp end.....i am sorry though that such a horrible thing happened. i really do dread it but i try so hard not to think about it or i wouldnt go to jobs.

i also think that the entire public sector is being shafted at the moment (in fact i started a thread about it....)

alot of bobbies i know have partners who are nurses or nhs workers....something about the shifts!

< applauds Lougle>

Taken, change the record, the needle seem to gave got stuck.

God I must be getting tired vicar. I just read your last line as boobies three times

oooo missed your excellent maths there lougle.....i wish i had worked all this out before i joined.

YANBU

The police are massively overpaid and the pensions are obscene. They constantly tell people that they "pay" for them. Well, they don't. If you work it out, they pay for 3 years' worth of their pensions out of their already huge wages. They could live for another 50 years beyond that! I know a policeman who has just retired in his late 40s! And they get something like TWO THIRDS of their final salary...so a retired PC is paid more for the remainder of their life than many people can ever hope to get in a full-time job, if they can even find that!!

We shouldn't concern ourselves too much though, this situation is clearly being "looked at". In the county I live in, there are actually more retired police than serving! It's true in other areas apparently. There's a lot more I could say, but I'd better stop before I get too annoyed!

Wow Badger! Did you make the wrong career choice?

So your suggestion is that I, and everyone else, is essentially greedy? If you don't agree with my points, where are your counter-arguments?

I am a nurse and am cringing at your posts Taken. Assuming you're not on the wind up, you are coming across as a right plonker.

I really appreciate our police force, I would not/could not do that job, they deserve every blooming penny and then some.

Very nice maths lougle

Looking back at Taken Years earlier posts she is saying she will only come out with 6% of her earnings - which implies she will only have somewhere between 3 to 6 years of pensionable service when she retires ......

Hardly comparable to 30 years in the police.

Or maybe her maths has gone wrong somewhere .....

i see badger missed lougles post aswell then....see? trying to reason with the unreasonable.

its just like being at work this is....

I bought a Mister Maker sock puppet kit from Home Bargains for £1 today, for those with crafty dc's they've various kits in, dirt cheap. :)

quote from badger Question: So your suggestion is that I, and everyone else, is essentially greedy? If you don't agree with my points, where are your counter-arguments?

answer: 5 posts above your first post.

My points speak for themselves...the pensions are absurd. There are 2.5 million+ on the dole, many would do the job for half the price. Only premiership footballers have such ridiculous wages.

oooo home bargains....
i do wish we had one of those near here...

Do you mean 6 posts? If so, then my points aren't really in doubt. In fact, nothing I said is opinion, it's fact.

Badger, what' s your job?

Why do you care so much Badger? Why does it annoy you? Is your life really that empty?

I think the points have all been well answered on this thread. The army pays a massive pension too (or did). Like our police officers they can also pay the ultimate price.

I think if you spend any length of time with police on a series of Saturday nights in any big city taking abuse and assault you might feel differently.