To be really upset to read on MN

[shootingstarz]

That parents are going without food because they can?t afford to feed their kids.

While a man may have lost his leg, it doesn't make you feel any better that you lost your arm

During the Irish famine of the 1840s similar arguments were used about starvation/deprivation being the fault of the poor. Read Cecil Woodham-Smith's book for insight into how this happened.

The situation of many asylum seekers I find horrific, particularly families.

I agree boffin. Although there is actually a bit more support for families. Those who are most destitute are actually the childless.

Hecuba people want to think it's your own fault for being poor, so that they can reassure themselves that being so clever themselves it will never happen to them.

I feel like MN is pretty good about not tolerating victim blaming when it comes to DV or rape, I don't know why people feel it's acceptable when it comes to poverty.

Two wrongs don't make a right. People being even worse off does not mean we deserve to be punished. It is not our fault they are in the situation and we are not really in a position to help.

I really want a job but I realise that is unlikely to happen. Is it really so bad of me to wish people didn't feel the need to be so patronising, to put us down further.

resolutereader.blogspot.co.uk/2009/04/cecil-woodham-smith-great-hunger.html cites the book:

Sir Charles Trevelyan, who oversaw relief efforts (such as they were) during the famine, had little but contempt for the Irish... "The Great evil with which we have to contend, is not the physical evil of the famine, but the moral evil of the selfish, perverse and turbulent character of the people."

I don't blame people for being poor. I was just trying to understand this level of poverty.

Lesley as I posted earlier -- I am job searching right now, and literally every job I can apply for is only posted online, and can only be applied for online.

Without internet access, I could not get a job.

I am also a student and virtually everything related to that from enrollment to fee paying to coursework has to be done online.

I personally do not feel internet is a necessity -- but employers and schools and councils do seem to think it is, so I have to go along.

People saying you can't be etc is like a kick in the teeth when you are living it.

it is a neseccity for people who are looking for jobs. it is a necessity for chidlren who need to complete work via computer (every secondary school pupil i know does part of their homework on the computer and it has to be done like that). it is a necessity for people who need to spend as little as possible on food and necessary items. it is a necessity for people that need to sell their belongings and get as much as possible for them. it is a necessity for people who telecommute for work or are running their own business/self employed. it is essential for people who are housebound for any number of reasons and need to have everything delivered to their homes. it is essential for people who have no social life for any number of reasons (no money being a massive reason) and need to have contact with other people in order to keep themselves sane (i mean that literally, i have depression and i couldn't cope if i wasn't able to get in touch with other adults from time to time as i am a lone parent, no-one comes home to me in the evening). it is essential for so many reasons. it doesn't matter that you have never used it for any of thsoe reasons it matters that the people that need it, need it.

it's also an necessity for teaching me how to spell

Saying that 'food stamps' comment insinuates that people are not spending their money on food, but spending it on non-essential items, which is frankly insulting to tar the many with the sins of few.

This. And the people who were determined to spend as much of their handouts on booze and drugs would simply sell the vouchers cheaply anyway. A pessimistic view I know but based on the reality that most addicts will sell anything to get enough to get the next hit

Okay internet is a necessity for applying for jobs in some fields, for students, freelance work - with homework - I do know people here with teenage kids who don't have internet access, so I guess its not the same everywhere.

In terms of moneysaving, research, etc - I did say I used the internet at our local library when I did need access. So I know there are times it saves you money, just questioning needing it at home.

I guess though I do know people in their 50's and older who have no internet access and still manage to live okay.

People saying you can't be etc is like a kick in the teeth when you are living it.

hecubasdaughter I couldnt agree more :(

The worst it when people assume I am "sponging on incapacity benefit" No point explaining Ive never applied or received it

"In terms of moneysaving, research, etc - I did say I used the internet at our local library when I did need access. So I know there are times it saves you money, just questioning needing it at home."

how close is your library to your home? within walking distance? what about when it's raining heavily and you have 3 under 5 to get to the library? what if it's not walking distance, maybe you are in a village and the nearest library is a 15 minute taxi journey, how do you justify paying £40 (at least where i come from) for a two way taxi journey to use the internet when home broadband can cost as little as £10 a month?

lesley i'm really struggling to understand why you are so determined to disbelieve that people would chose to have internet if they really didn't need it yet go without food. i understand you have never been in this situation but is it a huge leap of the imagination to understand that others are and that they are doing all they can to get out of it without you needing to know every detail of their lives and what lead them to be where tehy are today?

To right Nigel I don't drink or smoke, I've never taken drugs, I don't go out, haven't bern to the hairdressers for a long time or bought clothes for me or DH I really don't know where I am being so irresponsible.

I refuse to be sucked in again but I really need to say that it is indescribably arrogant to think that because you find something hard to believe it therefore can't be true.

what if the local library is a 3 pound bus ride away?

the fact is, if you don't have internet at home, you are probably wealthy enough to receive paper bills (ie you don't need the paperless discount), wealthy enough not to be reliant on freecycle for furniture and household stuff (ie you can afford to buy those things when you need them), wealthy enough not to need to ebay stuff (ie you can afford to donate unwanted stuff to charity), wealthy enough not to use the out of date/bulk shopping discount sites (you can probably afford to buy in date at Tescos/Waitrose, wherever). You almost certainly don't have school age children.

I'm lucky, hugely lucky. I have what I need and more. But to those who say that the internet is a luxury, you are living in loud cuckoo land. Boffinmum has already posted a link to research on this - suggest you read it before posting.

Yes you are right - my library is a 10 minute walk max.

I guess I have been struggling re. internet because for me the internet is a relatively recent invention and I know I would manage without it - although I would miss it.

pip - Yes I can get to local library easier. And I guess I have other nearby advantages that I haven't thought about that means I don't need the internet. So we have a very local charity shop that sells cheap furniture. The market has stalls selling cheap and out of date food.

And you are right I don't ebay stuff and my kids are older.

Many libraries have 20-30 minute time limits for using the Internet, and only open for very limited hours anyway, apart from main branches. It's of little practical use for ongoing interaction.

But the Internet is in grained in our life's

It's like saying why have a fridge when the Tudors made do without?

The next generation will be typing things like "We were so poor, my mum had to spend every waking minute on the computer looking for free stuff and out of date food"

the internet is a luxury for some people. i know people who have it only so they can use facebook on a big screen becase the photos are too hard to see on their phone. but just because they dont use it for saving as much money as possible doesn't mean it's not necessary for others. having a car is aluxury for some as they dont need their car to work or take chidlren/partners to hospital for appointments. but that doesn't mean everyone else should be able to manage without a car just because some do.