AIBU to think that cyclists and drivers

[helloclitty]

might be a lot more civil to each other if it was mandatory to pass tests in both cycling and driving if using the road, whether you are a cyclist or vehicle driver.

Of course there would have to be exclusions for people unable to cycle or drive for any reason (a simulator perhaps). However, with the focus on green living and the sheer increase in road traffic on our narrow city roads something has to be done. We cannot divide up the roads there is simply not enough space, we need to be able to share them and understand all road users needs as well as our own.

All this threads done is add fuel to the us and them fire.

Oh give it up Whatme. He was crossing a junction in an entirely lawful manner from what you said. Nothing about kerbs, that was added later. Just accept you were mistaken in your sense of outrage.

The cyclist is allowed to filter on the left

There was no left - single lane road, vehicle in front had slowed and halted.

Well, yes it has a bit Yon - but there really is a gap in education about what it is like to be a cyclist - it often is a lot of 'us and them', because 'them' have the careless potential to kill eve nthe most defensive of riders such as myself.

Whatme - the filtereing is irrelevant - you didn't look and assumed that because a van stopped so does everyone else, which, as I indicated, isn't the case.

Single lane road, totally legal to filter on the left. Highway code actually advises you to check your mirrors for cyclists and motorbikes doing exactly that. As I said, I personally filter on the right because you have much more visibility.

you didn't look and assumed that because a van stopped so does everyone else, which, as I indicated, isn't the case.

Cyclist was behind van, undertook the van as we were turning, came shooting out of blind side of van.

ina - I agree, but Whatme's example just involved the road users right to go ahead, which he/she had but was missed by Whatme.

Shooting out - racing across the junction - bit of drama thrown in through choice of diction? Accept your error and move on.

He didn't undertake, because that isn't possible on a single lane road. What he did was filter, perfectly legally.

ah I see what you mean by 'filtering' now, ina. No undertaking, of course you are right. Sorry.

This is my final word on the topic of drivers vs cyclists.

Compos - you are kidding!

But oh Lord - why can't we?

Traffic police enforcing the law would help imho
Then perhaps more cyclists would stop for red lights, less drivers would talk on hand held phones while driving etc

To be fair to you Whatme, I do see where youare coming from in your eg. Each day I ride from East Manchester to North MAnchester across 3 arteial routes, on a busy ringroad, that lead into the city. I wouldn't dream of cycling across those junctions in the manner of 'your' cyclist. My sense of self-preservation is too strong. I assume if I am beside a coach, van HGV etc then I won't be seen by an on-coming driver.
But my anticipation of danger does not mean a driver can ignore my possible presence totally, and they should be aware of all possibilities IF they wish to claim to be a 'good driver'.

Speaking as someone who was nearly knocked off her bike this morning by a speeding lycra-clad cyclist overshooting a give way sign on the cycle path, I am sure this would be a good idea.

As would a standardised national system of layout and signs for cycle lanes - at the moment every local authority makes up their own rules.

'lycra-clad'! Oooh!! Even worse! We get judged by what we wear!

He didn't undertake, because that isn't possible on a single lane road. What he did was filter, perfectly legally.

I had a little google of the UK law, and not only are yoy wrong (see below) but stupid, as advising cyclists tofollow your cours woul get them hurt.

Anyway, overtaking onthe left/undertaking/filtering is not illegal in the UK, but it is not a god given right to do your own thing either.

The Highway Code says in section 139.

"only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so"

That is the relevant law in this case.

You also have to exercise due care and attention if you undertake and move into a junction when the traffic in front of you has stopped. If a car did it it would probably be seen as dangerous driving, I saw no cases involving cyclists.

Another case was a passenger who got out a car, and opened the door. An undertaking cyclist hit the door. The police judged the cyclist to be at fault.

I found a huge basis of complaints about cyclists undertaking when traffic is turning left, and it does not seem to be a slamdunk that the cyclist is in the right there either, the law seems to revolve around whether the turner in front is turning first and has used indicators or not, ie whether there was prior knowledge and the cyclist should have taken appropriate action.

Incidentally, I also found a few very useful cyclist websites advising cyclistson road lore, a lot more rational than the militants on this thread. There is hope.

Whatme - some of that post is relevant, a lot of it isn't. The law is very clear about your example but you seem to be resistant to that fact.

If by 'militant' you mean cyclists such as me who wish to assert their rights (in a very difficult circumstance) then I don't make any apology. People like me get slaughtered on roads week in week out, not usually by 'fuckwits' but by drivers who don't observe properly and are otherwise nice people.

Cycling on our roads is a hazardous exercise at times, and mostly we are simply asking for drivers to be aware of our actual, or possible presence.

The law is very clear about your example but you seem to be resistant to that fact.

You are right, the law is very clear, the cyclist was in the wrong as the van in front of him was not signalling to turn right.

He was also a fucking dickhead as he could have got hurt.

Okay - I give up with you.

Drive carefully, and I will continue to ride carefully.

Okay - I give up with you.

Which bit of

"only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so"

did you not get?

Its the Highway code, its thelaw of the land, not an optional extra for cyclists.

Bit strong you calling me stupid. And ironic really, since you called me stupid for advising cyclists to filter on the left. Look back over my last post, I don't filter on the left myself, why on earth would I advise someone else to do it?

Last word on this one. I think it's legal to filter on the left, you do not. But it's actually irrelevant, because now you are aware that cyclists do filter on the left. So when you're crossing stationary traffic you'll have a little look before doing so. Everyone wins :)

oh crumbs - are you seriously saying that any road user cannot go straight ahead at a junction if the roaduser to their right is turning right?

night.