to want to know if teachers are going to work until they are 65+

[SaynotoDaisyMeadows]

Asked on another thread if teachers are planning on striking again later this month and was told that the ATL union have accepted pension proposals Does this mean that teachers have accepted that they will need to pay more into their pension pot and work past the age of 60? Or as a compromise been reached?

Given there was so much disruption caused and a great deal of media coverage it would be helpful to know if they are going to be striking again.

We should compare teaching with other professions that require the same level of qualifications and training. You cannot be a teacher without a degree and a post grad qualification. Therefore you must make the comparisons with professions also requiring the same level.

And, as I said previously, most teachers do not think they are entitled to more than everyone else. However, they have the chance to fight for something better than first presented. Why would you NOT take that chance - to stand up for your own job and your own terms and conditions?

FWIW my FIL was a police sargeant, retired after his thirty years service on a good pension. He has said many a times that there is now ay he'd be a teacher.

I have been a teacher and now I am not. I left teaching and chose to work in a high security male prison instead. I know which one felt safer and where I got more respect from both my students - and the public at large - and it definitely wasn't working in a secondary school!

I think teachers are also picked on because of the high level of unionisation and the fact that the unions are becoming increasingly active and vocal.

Well said Hulababy

DebbieD78
"For teachers to have things far better than the parents of the kids they teach just leads to resentment and bitterness."

My god.

I never saw that before.

I should be paid no more than job seekers.

How dare I try and better myself and the children of the lowest paid.

(sarcasm for those that haven't figured it out)

It really worries me that teachers could be forced to work beyond 65. It is an incredibly stressful job; I'm not a teacher and there's a reason why! I could not do that job for 40 years plus.

There are going to be serious consequences to this government pressured decision, if it goes through.

'You cannot be a teacher without a degree and a post grad qualification'

Then I wonder what the teacher at year 6 of my children's primary was doing? She didn't have a degree or post-grad. She'd done some kind of teaching diploma 30 years ago.

My niece is also a teacher. She didn't do a three-year degree. She did a two-year course. It wasn't at a university, either.

Not quite the same as spending three years doing French or four years doing Physics at Warwick or Durham.

I like this one

"I'm fed up with teachers and their hefty salary schedules.

What we need here is a little perspective.

If I had my way, I'd pay these teachers myself-I'd pay them baby-sitting wages. That's right-instead of paying these outrageous taxes; I'd give them $3 an hour out of my own pocket. And I'm only going to pay them for five hours, not lunch or coffee breaks. That would be $15.00 a day. Each parent should pay $15 a day for these teachers to baby sit their child. Even if they have more than one child, it's still a lot cheaper than private daycare.

Now, how many children do they teach every day-maybe 20? That's $15x20=$300 a day. But remember they only work 180 days a year! I'm not going to pay them for vacations! $300x180=$54,000. (Just a minute, I think my calculator needs new batteries.)

I know you teachers will say-What about those who have 10 years experience and a Master's Degree? Well, maybe (to be fair) they could get the minimum wage, and instead of just babysitting, they could read the kids a story. We could round that off to about $5 an hour, times five hours, times 20 children. That's $500 a day times 180 days. That's $90,000....HUH?

Wait a minute; let's get a little perspective here. Babysitting wages are too good for these teachers. Has anyone seen a salary schedule around here?"

And when I read threads like this

Abra1d - the teaching diplomas haven't been around for a long long time now. Yes, some older teachers still have them, but not now. They have to have a degree. That has been the case for several years. I qualified some 15+ years ago, and it was the case then.

The two year degree - is that a shortened teaching degree, having already studied at a higher level previously? And when did she qualify? I ask I also did a shortened degree BUT I had already done two years on another degree and transferred over to it, and this was also 15 years ago now. In order to get on the shortened course I had to have evidence of having worked, and succeeded at degree level previously, for 2 years.

And now it is becoming harder and harder to get onto the teaching courses, the PGCE. demand is higher and places are fewer, the entry requirements have increased a lot and there is big competition to get on courses. In order to get onto a PGCSE you usually need to have gained a good grade in your specialist subject BEFORE going on it. So most teachers do have degrees in their first subjects - be it English, maths, Sciences or whatever.

I know it is much harder, now, Hulababy: I was talking to some trainees at the school where I volunteer and they were explaining how hard it is and how they'd be expected to have lots of valued-added (ability to run sports clubs), etc.

My niece qualified a while back, before things were quite so hard.

But why the response though? If you know it is harder now, and that those methods of qualifying no longer apply and haven't done for a good while. There's always going to be people in the system still existing once things change. It just reduces over the time.

And fwiw there are many teachers out there who have "proper" degrees such a three years doing French or four years doing Physics at Warwick or Durham who are then teachers, having done their PGCE afterwards.

I actually spent 4 years "doing" French at Durham and then a year getting my PGCE at Cambridge so I consider myself to be well qualified.

I spent 10 years teaching in secondary schools and given that it was that hard in my 20s that I have now given it up aged 33, I really do wonder how a 65 year old would cope with bottom set year 9 on a Friday afternoon. I'm sure some would still be brilliant with the students, being old doesn't make you a worse teacher. But keeping up with the long hours and the stresses of the job is not something I would want to be doing at twice my current age.

My Mum is still teaching at 62. She's a great teacher but it is really starting to take it out of her.

And the other problem is, teachers are being churned out at the same rate as ever, but the jobs aren't there for them. Keeping teachers on until they're late 60s is not going to help with that!

CrunchyFrog - places on teaching courses are actually in decline. There are far fewer available and there is a lot of competition for those reduced places, which means the entry grades have also increased.

Is Hula here?

Good, I echo whatever she says

Was just about make cunchyfrog's point. All those crumbly teachers staying on, often in positions of responsibility, will block jobs and promotion for the younger ones. Why should they step aside and lose money in what is a final salary scheme (it is isn't it?).

LOL! I really should know better...after this many years on MN, I should know better....it's always when I am at a weak spot, feeling poorly...I get sucked in... I am not even a teacher anymore, I should let it go.....

There may be unexpected consequences of having to work on into later years such as proper action on bad behaviour in class or plenty of opportunity to reduce hours to part time.

Otherwise there is a risk of a huge number of older staff being off sick.

It will probably not be like it is now but half the staff old and exhausted - things change.

I am waiting to see if an unintended consequence of the high unemployment rate for young people will be a rise in the number of church ministers and priests.

Off subject I know, just wanted to say.