to want to know if teachers are going to work until they are 65+

[SaynotoDaisyMeadows]

Asked on another thread if teachers are planning on striking again later this month and was told that the ATL union have accepted pension proposals Does this mean that teachers have accepted that they will need to pay more into their pension pot and work past the age of 60? Or as a compromise been reached?

Given there was so much disruption caused and a great deal of media coverage it would be helpful to know if they are going to be striking again.

I don't think teachers are tbh. It's just the media going on about it and portraying teachers n this way. Most teachers are just getting on with their normal day to day life.

Yes, if the unions fight it and they go on strike, teachers will abide with their unions - who wouldn't try and stand up for their themselves if it was an option? It's be daft not to, to try and save what you've worked for.

But it hits the media when it;s teachers. They are an easy target and the media know that because teacher's striking affects other people diredtly too - then thy can make more of a fuss avout it and get the public riled. And t works - you only have to read MN over the past year or so to see that,

It's a parenting website. Teachers, social workers, childminders and nursery workers etc are all going to be in the firing line on here.

Not as consistently as teachers, NearlyMrs. Do a count on Active convos at any one time.

In all the time I have been on MN teachers have been the most vilified. Way more than any other profession. Always have been, probably always will be. Their job affects so many other people's lives, and pretty much everyone has been to school so obviously everyone knows just what a teacher's job is and entails.

Again, it's a parenting website where schools and teaching staff and teaching methods will be widely discussed. I am simply saying that in the press and the world at large it is becoming increasingly tiring hearing of the poor hard done by teachers when other cuts in the public sector simply drop under the radar.

Why are teachers "special" in a 65/66/67/68 retirement age? the rest of society has to suck it up. FWIW - we have 2 still teaching past 70 (Ofsted outstanding/good with outstanding elements) and and 8 past 60 (again, good with outstanding elements).

As a parent I shove my head in my hands everytime one of my sons gets an NQT because I know I have to overview a lot of their work - ok Im no typist and this is a chat forum, but I have keep an eye on punctuation, grammar and above all, frequently reteach enhance what is taught because its lacking in its content.

Teaching is the only profession that accepts a 35% pass rate as acceptable (GCSE E&M A*-C)... or we could look at that as accepting at 65% failure rate. No other industry would employ people with that year on year ability to NOT meet targets.

trois this is what I don't get either I really don't get what is so special about teachers over and above any other worker, more so public sector worker, to warrant the specialist treatment that they are asking for.

I don't think other jobs have necessarily dropped under the radar, but they are lumped together as "public sector jobs", because the relevant unions are not single career unions. For teaching it is different. So it is "teaching unions" rather than "public sector unions", and so teaching is perceived to stand apart from other public sector jobs.

I think teachers are feeling under fire on all fronts. Frankly, my pension is of less immediate stress to me than the things that are making my day to day job increasingly hard to deal with, in particular constant curriculum, specification and assessment changes, all added to pressure of improving results for those of us in more challenging school (no excuses!). Yes, actually, I do feel hard done by.

And I know that other people struggle too. My DH works in the private sector, in a company that is teetering on the edge, and this is the second time in 2 years that we have been here. But, unsurprisingly, comparing his situation with mine is a pretty pointless exercise. Hard for everyone, and tough times in the Madonna house!!

It is worth comparing teachers to other public sector jobs though. Social Workers, Police or Nurses for instance who face similar rigorous scrutiny and regulations, if not more so, than teaching.

Not me anyway! A year teaching infants full-time was more than enough for me. If I can't find a part-time post by the summer, and I've already been looking for a year, then I'd rather not set foot in the classroom again (apart from perhaps the odd day of supply, when I don't have to plan, set targets, put up with crap from SMT, or even worse, educational advisors, get drawn into petty school politics, deal with stroppy parents, etc. The children are brilliant, it's everything else about schools that's a problem.)

If I ended up like that after 1 year aged 32, and I consider myself to be a strong, resourceful, resilient person, what hope have others got of making it to 68? The very few who do are superhuman and deserve the respect and admiration of all of us.

"Teaching is the only profession that accepts a 35% pass rate as acceptable (GCSE E&M A*-C)... or we could look at that as accepting at 65% failure rate. No other industry would employ people with that year on year ability to NOT meet targets."

I'm not sure what you mean by this Troisgarcons. All of my students are given target grades and if they don't achieve them, then I am accountable.

It is true that some of my students have target grades of D, E or F. Usually those students have SEN. I consider it a tremendous success when they overcome considerable difficulties to achieve their target grades even if they are below C grades and what you might consider a failure.

There pay and conditions should be based upon the pay and conditions of normal working people who pay taxes to pay their salaries and pensions.[sic]

I'm sure most teachers would love that level of pay. My DH worked out recently that the hourly wage for an nqt was £6.10ph. When he realised he'd get more money working in mcdonalds he quit his pgce. it wasn't just about the money tbh, but it was about working 80hrs a week and not seeing his children

I haven't got the stats to hand but an astonishing number of teachers die early in retirement if they work to retirement age at the moment. Pushing back the pension age for teachers will mean that a higher % don't get to claim a substantive pension. Maybe that's the government's plan...

Actually trous I think you're wrong. This country has paid millions in bonuses as well as salaries to the muppets in banking who have f*cked up the economy and are continuing to hold it to ransome year on year...

The whole public sector employment policy seems insane to me, lets make mass redundancies, and push people onto benefits, at the same time, lets have a recruitment freeze hand in hand with internal recruitment only, which means that staff who arent really qualified get promoted, while lower graded posts remain empty.

Then lets up the retirement age, so there is less movement anyway.

Then lets wonder why young people find it so hard to find employment.

I find it strange how we moan constantly about teachers on here but the fact that the armed forces can retire at 40, receive their pension at 55 and do not contribute at all to their own pensions goes unmentioned. Why on earth should they get a totally free pension. Would save the government a fortune if they contributed!

This country has paid millions in bonuses as well as salaries to the muppets in banking who have fcked up the economy and are continuing to hold it to ransome year on year...*

Not really. Whilst it's a popular view, it's not strictly true. Pre- 2008, the banks as private companies paid the bonuses. The government then re-capitalised the banks in return for a controlling equity stake (i.e. bought shares in them- they didnt just give them money). The banks (private businesses in which the government now has a controlling stakes) subsequently paid more bonuses, but they did so as private businesses. The government still own the shares and they are not paying bonuses out of taxpayer's money.

Also, despite popular opinion that nothing has changed, both bonuses and no. of bankers has fallen dramatically- just pull their accounts of the net and take a look- one example of bulge bracket IB- 2006: total payroll US$13bn, 2010 payroll: US$5bn.

annie I guess prob because the risk of death is not inconsiderable, although given choice I would prob go into armed forces before teaching in state sector.

I don,t think anyone who has not done their time in a classroom has any idea how taxing the job is. I fully support teachers and hope they do strike since they need to stand up for themselves as clearly so many ave so little respect for them. The government knows that by extending the pension age they will avoid paying many pensions as people will simply die on the job, such is the toll of the stress. What about police retiring at 55? Teachers more than earn their moderately modest pension and salary.

Golemmings - when calculating an hourly rate for a salary you need to take in many different aspects...pensions, holidays, sickness days etc. Your husband didn't do that.

Pitmountainpony - don't tell me you are comparing the stress of a teacher's job with the stresses of a police officer's job

Holidays, OrenishI? In what way take account of them in calculating pay? Teachers are not paid for holidays.

I don't know OrenishI my dad was in the police until he retired at 50.

He was shocked at the stress, pressure and workload I faced as a teacher. In fact, he spent a lot of time telling me I must be working far harder than anyone else because he couldn't believe that every teacher was putting that amount of effort in, making that many sacrifices... and suggested that I was creating work for myself by being a perfectionist! Not many perfectionist teachers I can tell you, you'd never sleep if you did everything 'perfectly'!

But then, not all police jobs/roles/areas are the same and neither are all teaching posts/roles/schools.

DH is looking at a retirement age of 74.
He is thrilled to bits.

Is that a or a ripsishere?

When I posted about being a 68 year old TA, I wasn't saying that I thought we were "special" in any way, I was saying would parents /LEA accept us being that old , or would ageism creep in by then and I'd be out of a job anyway.

Look at the way teachers who have been in the job for a good number of years are being treated at the moment. They are having to take on board a MASSIVE amount of change, from the way they were trained, because "someone" has decided that being a creative teacher is not the way forward - they all have to be clones of one another and any deviation from said path means non-compliance and therefore you are no longer considered a good teacher. Essentially, the goalposts have been moved.
Satisfactory has had its meaning changed. It's no longer "good enough to fulfill requirements", it has become synonymous with "below par". That is not to say that there aren't some rubbish teachers,who need to be weeded out,but most have been given the impression that they are no good because they don't quite tick all of the right boxes with OFSTED.

And don't get me started on TA's and the levels we are employed at.

Sorry.
It's just I'm getting fed up with the bashing that school-workers get.

I presume the police and armed forces have early retirement as thanks from the crown for putting their lives on the line. Only ranks on active duty go at 55 in the police btw.

My 'retirement' age is due to be nearer 80. Lucky me.