AIBU to think George Osbourne is a T**T

[Mum2Luke]

We are a family of 5 which a 21 yr old at University, 18 year old due to start uni next year and a 9 year old, DH earns the £43,000 and pays 40% tax on that as well as all the bills yet next year we are going to be one of the many families with no CB because he sees fit to think we earn a fortune yet a couple earning double get to keep the benefit!!!! We are also supporting our middle child in bus travel to and from college.

My CB goes straight to my son and daughter (as she is in full-time education) , I do not see a penny of it, it goes straight from my bank to theirs to buy shoes, clothes etc and is a lifeline. I do work but only 5 hours a week as a dinner lady in a school kitchen as my childminding has all but dried up with people being out of work in my area. I get pretty peed off with people who say 'oh you had kids, pay for them yourselves' which we have, all 3 of ours were planned and we saved up before even trying for them, no fancy prams that cost £300. Children are our future aren't they?

Does this Chancellor not undertsand that food is going through the roof as well as everything else which needs a lorry which uses diesel to transport it because the government puts tax after tax on fuel? Its is getting more and more expensive to pay for shopping and clothes which are essential in this country and its lovely climate.

Before people say 'Get a job near home' to my DH, believe me he tried, there is NOTHING in our area, he moved to his present job because the one which was local and he could cycle to was not paying anywhere near what he is qualified for, he might as well be on the dole but he is too proud, yes he's got a good job, he's worked bloody hard to get where he is, no company car though, he drives a KIA Rio 1.4. We don't go on foreign holidays every year, we don't smoke and we don't go out much together either.

Next year my son will be starting senior school in the september and the uniform alone will cost a fortune pus the football boots and trainers they have to have which also are not cheap by any means, the loss of CB is really stressing me out, I feel like writing to George f%&*$ing Osbourne and buying him a decent calculator because he obviously can't add up!!!!!!

Yes but OP it's not just you who is affected is it? Everyone and there are thousands of us are in the same boat. It is the situation, it is crap but frankly you will have to deal with it. And moaning about it won't make it any better.

I daresay your son is working hard and up all hours but it is his choice to be there. He must have known (as must you) that student funding was changing? That should have been factored into his decision, and your daughter's, about whether or not they could afford to go to University.

But really, your situation is no different from the vast majority's so it's hard to see why you feel it warrants some special kind of sympathy.

herethere, the amount a student can even borrow to live on is based on parental income. I've been to a few presentations on student finance, and some of the figures are laughable. Luckily my son knows we can't afford sums like £480 a year on clothes for the entire family, never mind just for him (genuine example). We always expected to contribute something towards his living expenses, but there's a point-blank assumption that we have a spare £200 a month to hand over. We don't.

Well YANBU about George Osbourne being a twat, he is indeed one. But YABU to complain about losing your CB on your income. DH earns £13000 a year. DSD who is 19 has had to choose not to go to uni because she couldn't afford the living costs. So she's currently working full time in a betting shop. Not exactly how she envisioned her life after she left school. My CB pays our fuel bill every month. I have to rely on my parents' help to buy new clothes and shoes for my 2 dds (8 and 5). I think you're incredibly lucky to have an income of £43000 a year!

But you're not a 'hard working parent' - you work an hour a day as a dinner lady

Unfortunately you're not getting the chance to be hard working until you find a job.

Are you doing all you can to find work in Manchester? Not just term-time as just like other working parents you will have to pay for childcare in holidays/take time off - your dh and you will need to share your annual leave/use holiday clubs etc. You need to actually be open to taking a full time job.

Frankly you need a job and you can't just wait for someone to call you up for childminding and you can't just use the excuse that your son is 10 - you are going to have to do what everyone else does and muddle through.

One £43k salary is not going to support 3 adults with no job and one dependant who is 10 years old. That's the basic fact.

also you're starting to benefit bash - why don't you just look to yourself and the fact YOU DON'T HAVE A JOB before you start whining on about what you think everyone else gets.

YANBU, Osbourne is a fanny. We have take home pay about the same as you (but luckily? thats between me and dp so hopefully cb cuts wont affect us although i think we will lose the little tc we get) and it doesn't go that far.

I think as well that if £43k is about £31 take home pay, then its really not that much more than the 'draconian' £26k cap that is proposed. And I think it is fair to say that working has added expenses such as travel and childcare to pay for, and if you are not working you will also benefit from free things such as school dinners and prescriptions etc.

But surely the answer is to just lie? My dh earns just over the threshhold and I am a sahm-pointless working as have no family to help out and my previous income would no where near cover the child care costs.

They will prise my cb from my cold dead hands-to steal a phrase!. I will lie and tell my dh to lie too

Bell star - think you'll find the govt know how much tax he pays thus how much he earns.

And OP, you certainly have a point about dual earning families being rewarded at the expense of families with one higher rate tax payer. But your moaning is putting me off. If your son had wanted a job at uni he'd have got one. The majority of mnetters are graduates - so many of us do indeed know exactly what a dissertation means. Sheesh.

Yes sassy-but the cb benefit is in my name. Believe me even if dh nd I have to lie and say we have split up-I will not be giving this money up-what about the home responsibility element?.

Sorry op didnt answer your question-YADNBU!!! tory party the party of family values?-ha fucking HA!

LaurieFairyCakeWed 07-Mar-12 15:20:14

But you're not a 'hard working parent' - you work an hour a day as a dinner lady

Unfortunately you're not getting the chance to be hard working until you find a job.

Are you doing all you can to find work in Manchester? Not just term-time as just like other working parents you will have to pay for childcare in holidays/take time off - your dh and you will need to share your annual leave/use holiday clubs etc. You need to actually be open to taking a full time job.

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How dare you say I am only working one hour, its not my choice having had hours cut from 2.5. I do have another before and after school child at the moment and am chasing another parent for non-payment of fees. We have done the maths, its simply would not be worth me going out full-time after paying for bus/train to Manchester and then it all going on a childminder to look after the ds, how would I get him to cm, then to get the bus? Its would cost an absolute fortune to do that and even more in holidays full-time. We simply cannot afford to pay for any childcare, I have no-one from my family living local. He is a bloody manager in charge of a factory, no he cannot take time off being the main earner and I have trained as a Teaching Assistant but again, no jobs in my area. I don't know how many times I must say this, I live in Greater manchester, 7 miles away from the centre in a fairly poor area with very few jobs which pay anything decent. When ds is old enough to be left all day I will go out to work, until then I have to put up with low paid jobs which fit in with his school term.

YANBU

Dicking about with child benefit just creates unfairness: the cliff edge problem, the twin income problem.

And even at high salaries, what's wrong with a system that recognises that children cost money, that parents have lower disposable incomes?

If they want a bigger net contribution from rich people they should simply raise the higher rates of tax. They are putting political expediency above morality. Again.

21 year-olds and 18 year-olds are not children. If you didn't subsidise them, they'd find work quick enough. And yes, I've done dissertations and yes, I've pulled pints and all sorts of other crappy jobs to pay my way through college etc in the past. Amazed that 2 adults and 1 child (the other two can fend for themselvez) can't scrape by on £43,000 in a poor part of Greater Manchester....

I didn't say you were working one hour -YOU did - you said you were working 5 hours a week as a dinner lady.

I also didn't say it was YOUR fault not being 'hard working' - just stating the fact that you're not 'hard working parents' if you've only got the chance to work an hour a day.

Also, yes if you get a full time job then in school holidays you and your DH would have to use separate annual leaves to cover it - what do you think the rest of us do.?

If you live too far away from town to get a job move closer - it's what lots of people do including us.

I can't believe you think it's wrong that 43k doesn't support 3 non working adults and one dependant?

Its find if you want to rant and I hate George Osborne for lots of reasons but we all still need to work.

You're not exactly showing yourself in the best light with your claiming others get stuff for nothing.

So do as suggested a couple times already... get a job in the evenings or on weekends, when your DH is home, so that you don't HAVE to pay for childcare. Lots of people do it. No reason why you can't too.

Where are all these school hour jobs/evening shifts/night shifts that people keep banging on about?-have you seen the unemployment figures lately?

When my youngest starts nursery I will be working in the local playgroup on a voluntary basis. I am also hoping to get some voluntary work in the local soft play-anything to try and update my cv as I have zero chance of getting back into my own profession.

Its really not that easy to get jobs nowadays or to upm and move sticks to where there is work like posters on this thread are suggesting op do.

YANBU, and you do not deserve the negativity you ar getting on here. But this Mumsnet, so you are only deemed worthy of government assistance of any kind if you claim benefits of some kind.

You are definatly not worthy of anything on MN if you are married to a higher rate tax payer. It's bollocks, but that's the way it is. Some people are unable to look beyond their own situations and see that families that don't have to claim tax credits can struggle too.

You have my sympathy.

Well said flossie.

Oh please! She is making choices that contribute to her financial problems. Yes, it's probably annoying that they are losing the CB, and in an ideal world, it would be sorted better and not happen. But we're not in an ideal world.

If the OP chooses to support her two adult children who should at this point be more than capable of supporting themselves, then that is HER CHOICE. But I find it hard to dredge up a lot of sympathy for someone who makes these types of choices and then complains that she is financially struggling. It's unrealistic. And then to continue whinging about her 10yo not having a mobile and the current trends is just further nonsense.

Think outside the box. Work evenings, nights or weekends, to avoid childcare costs. Get together with another childminder you know and make arrangements for some type of swap of childcare to enable you BOTH to work a part time job that's maybe 20 hours a week. Then the school holidays are a non issue as far as childcare cost. You said you know other childminders in the area are struggling, I'd be willing to bet you could find someone willing to try this.

But it's a bit silly to come on here pleading poverty at that level of income. You make much more than we do, and we make ends meet. And we're not the only ones. LOTS of people make do on smaller than ideal incomes... because they have to. Make better choices.

"Where are all these school hour jobs/evening shifts/night shifts that people keep banging on about?-"

Everyone I went to college with who didn't have rich parents used to find work in town by knocking on doors and asking if there was anything going. Bar work, a few hours in shop, stacking shelves at night... whatever. Not the kind of job that gets advertised in the paper or at the Job Centre, casual work that, even in a Northern town in the eighties was still around. The CB isn't being cut until 2013 by which time the oldest will have a job. So all the middle one as to do is find something to do with her weekends that makes a few quid rather than expecting Mum to send pocket money. That's not negative

They should have just cut CB full stop rather than this half baked scheme. Nobody should be paid by the state for their choice to have children. In that respect I agree its unfair that some are losing it.

However, you chose to have three children and have a very decent household income. You work just 5 hours a week so can hardly moan about the lack of extra income. If you study in an area with no jobs, then you either need to move or look for any type of work. Manchester is a huge town so you have a far greater chance of finding work than rural areas. If you are at work in the day then how can you childmind anyway?

A nine year old will need minimal childcare given they are at school most of the day, its not going to cost all your wage if you work 9-5 and have to use after school club. If you dont WANT to pay childcare, then work nights or weekends around your husband. I bet there are plenty of shift workers who would welcome a reasonably priced out of hours childcare service.

Your eldest two are adults, its down to them to make their own way in the world. Its lovely if you can afford to support them but they should be expected to take work, lots of places hire students as they are cheap and plentiful. They chose to go to uni rather than find full time employment.

If your worst worry is that your nine year old doesnt have a mobile, then I have no sympathy.

That's not the point. Loads of people make choices that will result in financial hardship, but most of them get support on here.

It's ok to have second and third or fourth children when you are in a position to claim tax credits.
It's ok to have second and third or fourth children when you are in social housing.
It's ok to have more children when you already have two that are disabled.

And before I get flamed for saying that, I would like to point out that I am not SN bashing, I am pointing out choices that can cause financial hardship.

Income is relevant to outgoings. It is irrelevant if one family can make ends meet on an income of £43000, because another families outgoings make be completely different.

Bellstar -evening shifts start at 5 in local supermarkets ( i asked) DH comes home at different times depending what time he finishes and then has a 20min + drive down the motorway so I cannot tell what time he'll be back to take over.

Flossie - thanks for that, I did not deserve what they gave on here, am already stressed out chasing money from a parent for non-payment of fees. We don't actually take home £43K, once everything is taken out theres food to buy and fuel to get to work in the first place, we hardly go out together anymore which is not good. I've done all I can to get work which fits in with youngest ds having no help nearby but there simply is none which pays enough for me to make it worthwhile paying a childminder (no holiday clubs near). Am in tears as I feel like they think I don't do enough, I don't have a car so how would I get my ds to cm, then try and get to work in Manchester? Its simply would not pay enough for cm and transport on buses.

Flossie do you really expect people to support someone's request for state help when her husband earns £43k, she currently works one hour a day, thinks that a 10 year old not having a mobile phone is a hardship and has 2 further children of an age able to contribute to their household income but don't?!!!!

There are many, many deserving stories and causes posted about on here - this isn't one of them and the "there is nothing we can do" "I simply can't change wrt working more/differently" "my children can't find any work anywhere" type claims - which are blatantly WRONG - only serve to reinforce the view that the OP and her family aren't trying hard enough to help themselves before they expect the state to do the rest.

"If this government did not squander the money on people who claim for non-existent kids and ones who don't even live in the country as well as giving it away we wouldn't be in this mess".

The above is what the OP said - she is the one 'benefit bashing' without looking at her choices. It's just massively unrealistic to think that one wage can support 1 working adult, 3 non-working adults and a dependant child.

I've lots of sympathy for her circumstances - yes, it's difficult to get a job if you live out the city centre and it must be annoying to have trained as a child minder and not be able to find children to use your service. I've already said she can rant away.

But what she is complaining about is her and her family's 'choices' - she complains she won't get much towards her childs 'halls' bill - her two student children need to either get loans to support themselves or get jobs to support themselves.

Or instead of doing a low ranked Art and Design course in a town that will require extra accomodation perhaps her child could think about a course closer to home - or get a job instead?

Her choices have 'narrowed' - and that is the part that is the same for everyone apart from the very rich.

I have never seen anyone on here complain about higher rate taxpayers being 'rich' We're higher rate taxpayers and also don't think we should get child benefit - we don't anyway.