To think a degree is not wasted if you're a SAHM

[Ouluckyduck]

as stated today by Sarah Vine in the Times. I learnt many things and it made me the person I am today. It may influence how I raise my children or how I am as, eg, a school governor. When I was a uni I certainly didn't know that I would end up being a SAHM with an SN child. Girls should be encouraged, imo, to aim high, but also to make the life choices they want to make without being made to feel guilty about it.

I agree!

My degree has enriched my life and my children's lives no end.

that's a bit of an odd thing for her to say

I see education, to whatever level, as an end in itself and a mark of civilisation.

So I reject not just any silly comments about SAHMs, but also the whole world picture which sees only a utilitarian purpose.

I didn't see The Times article but my first though was, well obviously you are not being unreasonable.

I have a good degree. My job does not require me to possess a degree and indeed many people in my profession do not [shrugs]. But I don't think I wasted my time in getting the degree.

I enjoyed being at university. It is a valid life experience not just a means to an end.

The old saying, educate the mother and you educate the family ( or very similar)

Just lovely to think she's married to the current education secretary. Whatever happened to "educate a mother, you educate a child". Is the education wasted because SAHMs just sit around watching Homes under the hammer and eating doughnuts?

I have to admit that I am basing what I write on your OP though (thanks to the Times paywall) so may be making unfair comment.

Don't read the Times but there was a very good article tonight in the Evening Standard (a London local paper) by Anne McElvoy commenting on what the prime minster of Denmark had said on the subject.

Here

I have not heard about this article ( do you have a link) but yanbu. By coincidence I wad having this conversation with DH today. I am kind of a satm but work 1 day a week. having an education gives you choices and for me it gives me the opportunity to have what I consider a great work/ home balance.

Don't think a degree is worth an awful lot nowadays, frankly

YANBU. Of course it isnt 'a waste'!

But personally, I would feel resentful if I was never able to use my degree ad professional training or have a career again.
I also have a child with SN, so I do realise that being a SAHP is often the only sensible choice for carers.
I guess it you have to take into account individual situations, but I do think it is sad that it is almost always women that give up their careers to care for their children.

Can't link but the headline is "what exactly is the point of having a law degree if you're going to give it all up for finger-painting?"

Coincidentally, I have never done finger-painting with my children.

Can't read the article, as don't subscribe to the Times website, but my general feeling is that few women would do a degree whilst all the time planning to be a SAHM. But even if they do, that's their own business.

Nearly all my friends are graduates, and some have become SAHMs and in their cases, and mine, the reasons have been either that they were overwhelmed by how motherhood changed their outlook on things, or (more often, to be honest) because they have been unable to find employment that pays enough to make working worthwhile. I think when I was a student I assumed that I would work hard, have a great career, then have children, then go back to work full time. As it happened, the working hard bit is true, but the career never happened, and my desire (and ability) to work full time vanished when I had children.

However, I am very very of people who have found their degrees to be an enriching experience. I just did it because it was expected at my school, and I allowed my teachers to push me into studying a subject that suited them and not me. . To me, university was just something I had to do before I could get out into the real world . I don't regret it, because I fear I would feel resentful if I hadn't done it, but on a personal level I feel like I have missed out on a great experience somewhere along the line.

Have Oxford degree and PGDL. Am SAHM. Never finger-paint either Ouluckyduck.

Actually, I think that lots of women segue in and out of the work force, p/t, full-time, time off to have kids. Certainly I personally see my SAHM-dom as time-limited to the under-five years. I'm looking forward to going back at some stage, but recognize that having taken what will amount to 10 years off could present some problems to employers. Don't regret the degree for a minute, though. Loved every second of it. (Also, saying 'Oxford' has a certain hypnotic effect in the States - say it in a posh accent and they think you're bloody Einstein!)

In that case Sarah Vine should give up the beauty column she writes for the Times. Waste of her degree and journalist training, don't you know. All that education and she's squandering it writing about eyeshadow and blusher!

The two single most influential factors on children's outcomes are:

1. Household income
2. The educational level of the primary care giver (usually the mother).

Point 2 actually cancels out point 1, so, for example, a child born to a graduate living in poverty will have the same chance of success as a child born in a HRT-paying family.

If that's not an argument for having a well-educated nation of mothers, I don't know what is.

The fact that so many women have to 'waste' their degrees because they are forced into giving up work or choosing jobs below their qualification level in order to fit round their child-caring commitments is another issue entirely (though no less important).

I did an economics degree and went straight into computer programming. Never directly used anything I had learned at Uni, which is not to say that it didn't equip me with tools and experiences which have been useful.

I worked in the industry for 16 years and am now a SAHM.

So - did I waste my degree?

To be (begrudgingly) fair to her, she was trying to make the case for state-subsidised childcare, but it was made badly.

Most Mums will be SAHMs and WOHMs at different times and in different proportions.

An education gives you more opportunities and choices and a better ability to weigh up what will be best for both you and your family.

Also I agree education at every age and stage is valuable in it's own right and not just as preparation for whatever follows

And if you haven't tried finger painting you should give it a try

oh ok

When the first university colleges for women were set up in the 19th c the founders spent a considerable time arguing that university-level education would make women excellent wives and mothers.

sunshineandbooks where do you get your stats from? (Not doubting you, mind, actually going to show this thread to DH when he gets home! - just interested).

I haven't read the article, but agree with other the posters that it is a stupid comment.

Being a SAHM isn't a life sentence, most women will go back to the workplace at some point - indeed as ChocolateIsAFoodGroup said it is seldom as rigid as SAH/WOH, but often a mixture of options over the years. That is certainly my experience.

Instead of studying for a degree I spent most of my pre-dh years travelling, experiencing different cultures, food and learning about people. I didn't do a degree but I feel fulfilled and felt ready to be a sahm. I don't think a degree is wasted but I think there are more important things than a degree like experiencing life.

I may not have the vocab of degree educated people but I feel like my experiences have taught me a huge amount of empathy and an understanding about the meaning of life as a whole which is irreplaceable.

A colleague mentioned those stats sunshine, would be good to see a source. V interesting.

Education is never wasted. It is worthwhile for its own sake not just as a means to an end.

I have two degrees and enjoyed my time at uni. I try to pass my love of learning on to my children.

My Mum always told my sister and me (both highly qualified SAHMs) that it doesn't matter if you plan to marry a millionaire, education gives you choices. If everything goes horribly wrong your education will help you support your children if you need to.

Chocolate - the influence of money is from government research (various DWP reports). The influence of education hasn't been as intensively studied here in the UK (though again there are numerous academic studies and DWP reports about it) but is based mainly on some American research that has been following children since 1979.

In the example I gave, it doesn't mean that all highly educated mothers living in poverty will overcome the detrimental effects of poverty; it simply means that they have a MUCH bigger chance (statistically speaking) of doing so.

The inter-relationship between education and outcomes for children are not straightforward of course. It doesn't necessarily mean that it's about intelligence, nor is it about the quality of education. It could be that children brought up in households where education and educational experiences are valued will benefit from all sorts of knock-on effects denied their less well off or less well educated peers. The whole thing quickly becomes a self-fulfilling social model. That of course most emphatically does NOT mean that poorly-educated parents are somehow deficient in their parenting. It is so much more complicated than that.