To think a degree is not wasted if you're a SAHM

[Ouluckyduck]

as stated today by Sarah Vine in the Times. I learnt many things and it made me the person I am today. It may influence how I raise my children or how I am as, eg, a school governor. When I was a uni I certainly didn't know that I would end up being a SAHM with an SN child. Girls should be encouraged, imo, to aim high, but also to make the life choices they want to make without being made to feel guilty about it.

Excellent posts sunshine

I am surprised to see comments such as the ones made by the PM of Denmark, a country which has a reputation for being a truly equal society. It's basically viewing sahp (women, mainly) as second class citizens, on whom education is wasted. Nice!

I may or may not return to work, but I do use my degree and PGCE. I studied English and History and find myself discussing 'Of Mice and Men' and JFK on a daily basis at the moment with ds1. I would struggle to help him, if I hadn't been educated myself.

The other thing to consider is that at 18, when most of us go to university, we have no idea what our futures hold. Are we to say that no one should go on to study at this point, just in case they decide to jack it all in 5 years down the line and sah with their kids, because that's the only way to ensure a degree doesn't get 'wasted'. Or would that policy just extend to women?

If sahm don't fulfil their potential and obtain degrees, what happens later in life if they divorce or are widowed and suddenly find themselves responsible for financially supporting their dc? Very short sighted to say an education is a waste.

What a truly ridiculous thing to say - does that mean that someone who is a qualified teacher who has worked for ten years teaching countless children or a nurse who has saved countless lives who then re-trains have wasted the education they received in order to do these things?. Yet again it is a dig at the many women who for various reasons have decided to stay at home - there is a notion that people are somehow inferior in some way just because they choose not to do a 9-5 job that most people complain about doing when they are in work!. Education is an end in itself it is about more than simply entering the workplace - self-fulfilment, life experience and an enriching of the mind in my eyes can never be seen as a waste of time. Statements like this are demeaning and uneducated.

kitsmummy I see what you mean.

I suppose, as karmabeliever is saying, the problem is that at 18 we don't know what the future holds. In my case I did well at school, went to university (not leisure studies ) and left believing that because I was ambitious and willing to work hard that in the end I would have a successful career , but it wasn't to be. Its been a source of real sadness to me, but then I didn't find my degree particularly fulfilling or interesting, and I think maybe if I felt enriched by the actual degree then I would feel it was much more worthwhile than I actually do.

difficult I truly regret doing a degree. It is making it more difficult to get a job so making it impossible to support my family now. I still love learning things but a I wish I'd learnt stuff in a way that was easier to pretend I hadn't IYSWIM.

At my nursery everyone gets free or subsidised childcare if they are in work. I think that is why a lot of people dont want to do any extra work. If I worked full time I would be poorer than what I am by doing 25 hours. I think that is why a lot of mums chose lower paying jobs to make it worthwhile doing.

I sympathise Hecuba - I'm finding I may be seen as over-qualified for the jobs I'd like to do (although I don't fully understand why it's seen as a problem)

I wish people were more flexibly minded - as I feel I am myself

I am doing an MA at the moment even though I am a SAHM and don't plan to return to the workforce at all (dc are school aged but we don't need another income). For me it's all about enriching my life and knowledge, and giving me a sense of personal satisfaction. I have never considered my employment prospects when deciding to study and I will be encouraging the dc's to go to university to study the subject that is most interesting to them, regardless of salary or employment prospects. I couldn't imagine spending three years immersed in something I wasn't genuinely engaged in.

I won't pretend that it's of much use when helping with the household or the dc's education. In a very general way HE has helped me with project management and planning, but there's been no direct relevance from my subject matter to my daily life. I'm sure that others will say that's a real waste, but I am confident enough to feel comfortable with my choices and don't really seek the approval of others.

Agree with everything you say sunshine - especially about translating the value of what women provide into an economic benefit - pay, of course, would be out of the question - but pension/NI contributions from the State would be a start.

Personally speaking, I will have taken 8-10 years out before I return to the workforce. I have excellent qualifications which I hope will stand me in good stead. But actually every job I have every had (was fundraiser for disabled kids) was through networking. I expect it will be the same here - personal contacts.

Other options (for me, and to broaden the debate, for other SAHMS returning to work) include the entrepreneurial route, self-employment, home business, etc. Certainly this seems more appealing after so many years of being my own boss . Also would have to claw my way back to previous Director-level position (would probably have been ED if I had stayed at work - which speaks to one of your posts about the cumulative effect of staying out of work for an extended period.)

On a side-note: My staying at home has been immensely beneficial to my DH. He has a very high-paying job that we both recognize is subsidized by my staying at home and the support I give him to concentrate on his career.

Wonder how I should be compensated for this?!

well i had my ds1 whilst at uni doing my degree! not exactly planned as such and since then i have had another 4 children, dp works and i am sahm. i enjoyed doing my degree and have done various bits of studying since having kids, through the ou etc. i was going to do an ma at one point but had issues with the bank, long story but i wanted to do my ma part time and they couldnt compute that with me being a student and therefore wanting to keep my student bank account and not immediately pay off my overdraft, oh that and the fact that they stopped a payment ot he university nursery as nursery fees dont count as student costs...

my degree was in history and sociology there are certainly some aspects of what i learnt (particulary in sociology and the social policy that i studied) that i have applied in my role as a mother.

i dont think education is ever a waste, i also dont thinkthat education is limited to schooling either, a love of learning and knowledge is about much more that that.

Larry please stop saying lawyers can easily afford childcare. There's a massive variation in salary, depending on what you're doing. A lawyer with 15 years PQE who's a partner in a City firm could probably pay for multiple nannies without even noticing, yes. A newly qualified legal aid lawyer will find it hard to afford nursery fees. Perhaps I'm sensitive about this as I'm closer to the latter category than the former, but there are plenty of us for whom it isn't/won't be anything close to easy.

80% of female graduates are predicted to never pay back their student loan, due to not earning enough and / or taking time out of paid work to care for children.

I don't know the full economics but when we consider the cost of the state providing decent quality free childcare to support women returning to work with young children this should be factored in. More women earning, paying taxes, spending more (VAT) and paying back student loans would quite possibly offset childcare provision cost.

I am in the fortunate position where my career pays enough for it to clearly be worth paying a childcare professional to look after my child. I will return to work quite soon after my baby girl is born because I do sort of worry that it is a difficult message to send to children - work hard at school and at university and in your career, do as well as you can, but then you might need to stop to look after kids. I basically want her to have the choice but worry that if she sees the culmination of her acquisition of knowledge and skills as putting it all to one side for a family, she may be less incentivised to try.

we paid back my student loans, but it took years. technically we didtn have to as dp and i arent married and it was my debt not his but we did anyway. i could have just kept saying i didnt earn enough, well anything!

I really don't see what kitsmummy is on about, I paid fees for my tuition at college, I paid my student loan as well. Back in the 90s when i was at university it wasn't seen as a waste of public money for you to be there studying, discussion, reading and becoming a well-rounded rational person. It's really a very recent perspective that university and college courses are training for jobs. I studied literature and philosophy so although I am a full-time working mum, I don't do anything related to my degree and I didn't expect to. THAT WASN'T THE POINT I suppose the course, possibly even the university I went to could be shut down if this thinking prevails. I honestly worry when people post relief that young people are being discouraged from studying because it isn't financially viable for them, or that an estate agent might know something about archeology. god, now i am depressed, and on a friday too! (there's no such thing as progress)

We'll know we don't need to have this discussion when 50% of the comments are about our concerns about whether men are wasting their degrees by staying home to look after the children....

Nice one thalia