To be very angry and disheartened about the wave of misogyny in popular culture these days?

[PineCones]

Apparently the more things change, the more they stay the same!
This song that has been playing all over the radio (albeit with the offensive word changed to 'loving')- these are the lyrics to the uncut version. the whole song is about p. and there are references to 'kill(ing) that btch'. It even ends on a very audible obscentiy (check last line), that is not random, oh no. it's directed at a woman.
just WHAT gives some jumped up media personality the right to sing a song as offensive, reducing a whole woman to just her private parts, and live off the royalties?
when did it become like this? that a wildly popular icon such as JayZ had to say he would stop using the B word because now the world has stopped spinning and time has stood still he has a pweshus daughter and voila! no woman can ever be a btch ever again!

you have girls mutilating themselves, women becoming pneumatic caricatures. Songs glorifying domestic violence. Idiots asking chris brown to beat them on Twitter.
Terribly mean comments directed at women on youtube- almost always using the B word, sexual characteristics, whether the commenter would 'do them', and so on.
and this is only references in popular culture. i'm not even going to get into FGM. Female foeticide. Female infanticide. Dowry deaths. Molestation. Rape. Rape as a political tool rather than crime. Domestic violence. Lowered expectations for women's achievements because they're 'only women'.
Where does it end?
Feeling very today. I really liked that song till I searched for it on youtube to play whilst working, and found the uncut version.

I don't like some of the lyrics to songs as suggested in the OP, but on the subject of who is to truly blame for them being commonplace, I don't think you CAN discount women themselves. I bet there are loads of female fans who throw themselves at rappers who make money by taking the piss.

Also, what about the females who appear in their music videos? I'm sure they're only thinking of the money and the fame, but it's easy to conveniently ignore what the lyrics mean and concentrate on the rewards.

The lyrics to some mainstream songs are just horrific.

And if they're not horrific 9 times out of 10 they portray extremely skewed/unhealthy relationship values. I can give examples.

Is it any wonder people end up in abusive relationships for years and literally don't realise there is anything wrong??

I doubt very much that DV persists because of song lyrics.

I also doubt that DV persists because of nasty song lyrics in isolation, same with sexual/sexist t-shirts, sexist toilet signs, rape jokes, lads magazines, the prevalence of lapdancing clubs, underreprensation of women as characters in their own right in films/TV etc but take all of these parts of our culture together and it adds up to a society where women are objectified and seen as somehow less than human (with male being the default as a human) which I imagine does lead to the persistance of DV.

Boomerwang- agree. But I do think it has become more openly acceptable and dare I even say, in some cases, glamorous () because of lyrics like this and all these songs about hitting women and punching them and so on.

Chocobo- x posted! Think you said it more clearly.

No, Chocobo is right, the songs aren't the problem, they are part of a wider picture. DV rates aren't going to go down if you ban the songs by themselves.

I don't think anyone is talking about banning things - would guess that most people would say that freedom of speech is a very important thing too. I think what we need to act on is changing people's attitudes so that nobody would actually want to buy a song with such objectionable lyrics. When I think back to that vile Snoop Dogg song I mentioned earlier in the thread there is something messed up in society that I, as a teenage girl, was happy to glorify in lyrics which were sooo disparaging towards women.

Not to mention gang rape of young women as 'initiation rites'. Increasingly becoming a problem in many of our cities.

if you gave teenage boys the choice between standing on street corners with their gang listening to the sort of songs mentioned above or a game of well organised football I think most would go for the football.
It doesn't have to be football but a competitive sport, properly refereed, with training regularly etc.
They can't just take up these sorts of hobbies, they need a parent to drive them to the football field, someone to provide training, strips/boots, someone to drive them home.
If money was put into this for all kids, boys and girls, after school activities and weekend stuff, their interest would be in the next game and/or sports stars rather than pervy MTV videos.
You can't just instantly be good at a sport (sorry for stating the obvious) you need to increase your level of fitness first but if effort was put into getting girls fitter so that they could play sport it would be the best thing imo. You can't be obsessed about your image if you are regularly seen coming off the pitch sweaty and untidy.
Sadly this seems unattainable.

What Josie said.
I totally agree, except for the bit about driving to practice. In my last neighbourhood, which had very deprived pockets, there was an active football club for boys, and it was very local.

I definitely think that girls who do sports are less likely to take shit from men and boys, and have higher self esteem.

There also needs to be "wholesome" activities for young boys and girls. They are closing down leuisure centres left and right, and building bars.

Kids need to spend time swimming, bowling, going to youth clubs and doing activities where boys and girls can hang out together in a normal way.

I just remember from my own high school that when boys and girls have places they can be friends, mysoginy is greatly reduced.

And we were listening to Public Enemy (Fight the power-remember that?!)but also Ice T and Ice Cube, who were all about bitches and Ho's, so that hasn't changed much really.

I so can't spell misogyny!

JosieT, NowThen- I think you guys are spot on.
A little dose of sport for boys and girls every evening would go such a long way.

JosieZ wrote - "I think most would go for the football. It doesn't have to be football but a competitive sport, properly refereed, with training regularly etc. They can't just take up these sorts of hobbies, they need a parent to drive them to the football field, someone to provide training, strips/boots, someone to drive them home."

Really? The likes of football greats like Pele and Maradona didn't even need a proper football to get started. They used a rolled-up ball of rags instead, and rags for goalposts.

OP, YANBU. These lyrics make me very, very angry and depressed too.

I hope that my DC will be 'equipped to challenge' this stuff, as someone put it upthread, but I do worry. :(

I agree, YANBU. That said, there are alot of positive forces out there too. I just think when push comes to shove, alot of younger women prefer to stick to the stereotype (stay thin, stay attractive, stay nice, yada) because it helps with survival generally, and finding/keeping a romantic partner in particular. I think we have a responsibility to challenge the status quo on behalf of ourselves and if we are older, younger women. e.g. you don't have to be thin, you don't need a man to be happy and fulfilled, you don't have to do x in bed if you don't want to, you can be free and confident, etc.

Is it really worse, and if so, why? What has changed that makes it worse?

Really? The likes of football greats like Pele and Maradona didn't even need a proper football to get started. They used a rolled-up ball of rags instead, and rags for goalposts.

That was maybe in the days when kids were allowed to play outside and were not dispersed by the police if they were in a 'group' (more than two...)

I once taught a girl who called Rihanna a 'stupid cow' for leaving Chris Brown after he beat her up, adding 'I'd let him beat me up'. I was utterly horrified, but it's a very common attitude.

I think what has changed is that these images and mores are much more prevalent.

Old gimmer alert- when I were a lass, there was TOTP once a week, radio in the kitchen, no radio in the car. No MTV or music videos channels. I loved music, and was typically immersed in 'pop' culture- Smash Hits, NME, making mix tapes with my friends. I probably saw about three videos a week- not only were those videos 'tame'- lots of mist and split screen effects, they made up a tiny % of my cultural landscape.

Fast forward to today, and a teenager could easily see 2-3 hours of music promos a day- rewatch clips on You tube, hear a new song have it on their MP3 player within minutes for the cost of a chocolate bar, rather than wait until the weekend to see if the record shop had it, where it would cost a whole week's allowance.

Hmm not everyone likes sports, though. I can't stand competitive sports, don't mind other forms of exercise. I'm just hopelessly uncoordinated.

I do agree that some form of activity would be good though :) I did a drama and music group when I was younger, musicals rather than pop stuff, and loved it, really brought out my confidence and I met loads of great people.

josie - i agree with you about the activities thing. DS1 when he was a bit younger was seriously into skateboarding. He'd go to various skateboard parks quite often but sometimes he and his skater mates would use carparks and similar areas for skating (until moved on ). The boys, or all ages, without fail were there with skateboards or scooters or BMX.

What bothered me was that girls were there too - but not doing anything. Almost as if 'being pretty and hanging out with cool boys' is an activity in itself. Where is the self-respect? Why is waiting around for someone else a reasonable use of anyone's time? (Unless you're a parent of course, then it's par for the course!)

"That was maybe in the days when kids were allowed to play outside and were not dispersed by the police if they were in a 'group' (more than two...)"

yy!

I wasn't really into sports either Bertie(although I like a game of footie now!) but I did dancing, and youth clubs and stuff.

I just think there need to be mixed activities for kids,especially girls.
Agree OrmIrian-girls seem to stop doing stuff at quite a young age, and start just being.
I did, at about 15, and I wish I hadn't. I think part of the benefit of sports, or other team/group activities is that team spirit, greater good thing, which takes the focus off the individual.
Teenagers can be really self obsessed and on the flip side, self critical, so it's good for them to step outside of themselves a bit.

I know this seems really off the point of offensive music, but it's not really, because that type of mysogynistic culture has less of an effect on kids with good self esteem and values.

In my experience team sports seemed to do the opposite. I was always the one who missed the really easy pass or goal or whatever and then everyone would pile abuse on me because I'd "made them lose", when I hadn't even wanted to play in the first place.

This was within a school environment where I was "the weird kid" anyway, though.