To think abortion law is a tough nut to crack?

[chandellina]

so the Telegraph has revealed doctors allowing abortion on sex-selection grounds. I see a couple threads on In the News expressing disgust over this, a view shared by many, I'm sure.

But as far as I understand you can have an abortion on demand for just about any reason - not feeling able to cope, not feeling financially secure, too young, too old.

So even if you were terminating for gender, couldn't you just give another reason? And if you believe in a woman's absolute right to choose - why require a stated reason at all?

My point is that the law seems very flimsy, and why be moral about sex selection and not other things - like terminating because a pregnancy interferes with a desired age gap between children, or it otherwise not being "the right time." I know there are cultural issues involved too with gender selection, but those probably are also in play for women coerced by family not to have a child out of wedlock, etc.

thoughts?

The law is very flimsy and IMO, far too relaxed. We are talking about ending life here, it needs to be much more strict.

If they lowered the limit then I think it would solve the problem of gender selection abortions. There is no way it should be legal to abort up until 24 weeks, weeks after it is possible to tell the baby's gender.

Some heriditary diseases only affect one gender.Perhaps this was the reson for these abortions?

"But as far as I understand you can have an abortion on demand for just about any reason - not feeling able to cope, not feeling financially secure, too young, too old. "

This is incorrect.

In the UK abortion needs to be signed off by 2 doctors and is only available where there is a risk to the physical or mental health of the mother.
In NI it is generally illegal unless there is a serious risk to the life of the mother.

We do not have abortion on demand in the UK, that is not the law.

Come off it, we pretty much do have abortion on demand.

People turn up for an abortion and say they can't afford it, they don't want it, their boyfriend would leave them or whatever and the doctor just translates that into their being a risk to mental health, gets another doctor to agree, then the abortion is booked.

The law is different when it comes to medical conditions, so I don't think the cases where it appears that abortion have been done for gender reasons would come under the same category.

Come off it?

That is the law.

The starting point of the OP is incorrect.

Legally we do not have abortion on demand. Legally you cannot abort due to sex.

Ops starting point is that legally we have abortion on demand so why is it illegal to abort on grounds of sex.

It's the law but it's not the reality.

no idea if you are right or not, I would just like abortion to be up to birth for all cases not just disability.

Have you ever heard of anyone being refused an abortion?

Sevenfold!

The OP is AIBU in thinking abortion law is a tough nut to crack.
And then goes on to say that legally we have abortion on demand so why is it illegal to abort on grounds of sex.

Her understanding of the current law is incorrect though.

agree with sevenfold. True abortion on demand for all.

you have named this thread well OP. It is a very tough nut to crack. I am pro choice but would happily support a lowering of the fetal age limit to 10-12 weeks with an exception for genetic illness which have been detected late, and even then probably not beyond 20 weeks.

As coincidence would have it i was only listening to the freakanomics podcast this morning about the 100 million women missing in Asia. THat is not women who have left home and gone missing, but females who were never born becuase of sex selection abortions. such an enormous hole in the natural gender balance has huge repercussions both socially and economically and not just for Asia.

I dont know what the answer is but i do think that some hard questions need to be asked.

10-12 weeks is a bit of a small window. What if you didn't realise?

That's a sexism problem, not an abortion problem, lyn.

Incidentally it's not just due to abortion but also female babies being killed at birth, and young girls dying due to not being seen as worth having resources used on them eg food, medicine etc

Sardine, I haven't read the legislation but you can definitely get two doctor sign off on reasons including financial reasons or being too young. I have never heard there must be some level of distress nor is it required in practice.

you're not really very pro-choice if you want to restrict womens choices by lowering the limits.

And the gender imbalance in Asia has little to do with abortion law.

IMO I agree the law is too flimsy, the reality worse and things need to be stricter.

This isn't something that can be defined with two points of view Peppy, it's just not that black and white.

There is a massive grey area between pro choice and pro life, and personally I fall somewhere in the middle. Pro personal responsibility would be the way forward.

This will not end well.

chandellina the law is that you need two doctors to sign off and that there needs to be physical or psychological risk to the mother. And that it is illegal to abort on the grounds of sex.

The reality for both is obviously different. People can obtain abortions for reasons of psychological risk that may be a bit flimsy and they can obtain abortion on the grounds of sex.

These things are illegal though.

So maybe what you have a beef with is not the existing law, but that it is not being adhered to?

what iusetoomuchkitchenroll said.

Abortion up until birth?! Dear God no

What sort of doctors would be willing to perform such abortions?

AFAIC, within the uk, if you fall pregnant and wish an abortion, up to a certain time limit, then theres not much standing in the way to stop you. So if you will, abortion is freely available within certain time limits.

"where there is a risk to the physical or mental health of the mother." covers just about any situation where the mother is pregnant and does not wish to go ahead with the pregnancy as forcing her to go ahead would be a risk to her mental health.

IMO aborting a baby purely on gender is just as bad for aborting because its not the right time/ dont have enough money/ couldnt cope etc etc. Personally im against abortion (although there are a handful of scenarios where i could find acceptable). I especially find abortion abhorrent when used a form of contraceptive.

Having supported a close friend who lost a baby at 15 weeks and then have to give birth at 18 weeks, I really dont understand how some people can refer to the baby as no more than 'a collection on cells'. It was a baby afaic.