To think abortion law is a tough nut to crack?

[chandellina]

so the Telegraph has revealed doctors allowing abortion on sex-selection grounds. I see a couple threads on In the News expressing disgust over this, a view shared by many, I'm sure.

But as far as I understand you can have an abortion on demand for just about any reason - not feeling able to cope, not feeling financially secure, too young, too old.

So even if you were terminating for gender, couldn't you just give another reason? And if you believe in a woman's absolute right to choose - why require a stated reason at all?

My point is that the law seems very flimsy, and why be moral about sex selection and not other things - like terminating because a pregnancy interferes with a desired age gap between children, or it otherwise not being "the right time." I know there are cultural issues involved too with gender selection, but those probably are also in play for women coerced by family not to have a child out of wedlock, etc.

thoughts?

*"just because the birth mother doesn't want the baby doesn't mean that no one will want it."

How in the world is it okay to force a woman to be a baby-producing machine for somebody else? Because that's effectively what you're doing if deny an abortion to a woman who has an unwanted pregnancy. How is it okay to "save" that collection of cells/baby's llife and in all likelihood totally and utterly screw up the mental health of the woman concerned? Thattheory will always seem to me to be an attempt to control and, just as bad, punish the pregnant woman. " *

Doesnt she make that choice when she has sex? Isnt that the same choice we say Men make when they accidentally father a child and the woman decided she is "keeping it". Sometimes people have unprotected sex, sometimes contraception fails but we expect (and i accept that sadly many dont) men to "man" up and accept their role as fathers and providers because that is the choice they made when they decided to have sex.

Obviously i am not referring to situations where rape is a factor.

Good post lynlynn

Here here LynLynn

91% of abortions were carried out at under 13 weeks gestation. 77% were at under 10 weeks

source

Doesnt she make that choice when she has sex?

Contraception failure?

I agree completely with lynlyn

It's not logical at all lyn. Having sex and accidentally getting pregnant means you automatically want to be and will be a good parent?

And personally, if I did get pregnant, and the father didn't want to be involved, I wouldn't expect anything from him. I know not everyone is like that though.

The difference is a man does not have to go through pregnancy, the bodily and hormonal changes that that causes along with the risks. The man does not have to go through the pain of childbirth and the subsequent risks.
Lynlly, accidents do happen and the only way to truely prevent this is by people refraining from sex.
I would be very interested in where The Telegraph obtained it's figures from especially in light of the fact that the vast majority of abortions in the uk are performed before the ability to tell which sex you are carrying has been reached.
I would also be interested in who is the They who have proven that fetuses feel pain in the womb.
Women have been having abortions for thousands of years and will continue to do so regardless of the law. We as a society, owe those women the ability to have have them in safe and clean facilitys where they will not end up dying as a consequence.
If the consequence of a pregancy being continued leads to a child who will grow up unloved and unwanted, I would rather that child would never have to go through that and if abortions were not allowed that would happen and a lot more often than is the case at the moment.

"Obviously i am not referring to situations where rape is a factor."

so, Lynnlynn, do you think it's ok for foetuses coneived through rape to be aborted?

Completely agree lynlyn.

They have proven that an unborn baby can feel pain, so it's rights should be exactly the same as the rights of the mother.

Contraception does fail, but it's still a risk you take when you have sex. You could prevent taking that risk by not having sex at all.

Women should not have the right to end a life just because they don't like the consequences of their choices.

It does all come down to when you believe life starts. But the fact is that life is viable from 22 weeks outside of the womb, so can it possibly be right to end that life?

Truth is we have no way of knowing who will be a good parent or whether a child will be loved and well cared for. The unwanted teen pregnancy might produce a much happier child and parents than the planned middle class child.

So not sure being wanted or unwanted matters that much to the child, while the mother may well change her mind.

But lynlynn men do not have to carry an unwanted child or give birth to it. I can't speak for every woman of course, but I would wager that the vast majority would agree the experience of pregnancy and birth have a deep deep impact on not only your body but your psyche. By forcing that on a woman who doesn't want it you are basically punishing her for the rest of her life for having a sex life. So in your view women should only have sex if they are prepared to carry and give birth to a child ?

I think it's ok for foetuses conceived out of rape to be aborted by using the morning after pill. It's widely available, it shudo be used in every case of rape. If a woman chooses not to use it she forfeits her right to choice IMO.

I know some hospitals no longer do sex scanning for this reason, I think they should all stop unless there are medical grounds.

They have proven that post-pubescent females can feel pain.

Really, they have.

I was wondering who 'they' were too so I put a bit of the text quoted by RemainsOfTheDay into Google and got a load of US anti abortion sites.

So in your view women should only have sex if they are prepared to carry and give birth to a child?

Yes, that's my view. And men should only have sex if they are prepared to Father a child. They can make an informed descison to drastically minimise the chance of pregnancy by using the free and easily available contraception everyone in this country has access to. But they should still only have sex knowing that they are risking creating a baby which they will then have a responsibility for.

I think it's ok for foetuses conceived out of rape to be aborted by using the morning after pill. It's widely available, it shudo be used in every case of rape. If a woman chooses not to use it she forfeits her right to choice IMO.

Sometimes it fails too. what then?

*Truth is we have no way of knowing who will be a good parent or whether a child will be loved and well cared for. The unwanted teen pregnancy might produce a much happier child and parents than the planned middle class child.

So not sure being wanted or unwanted matters that much to the child, while the mother may well change her mind.*

I think the chance of being a good parent is vastly improved if you actually want to be one in the first place.

I think it's ok for foetuses conceived out of rape to be aborted by using the morning after pill. It's widely available, it shudo be used in every case of rape. If a woman chooses not to use it she forfeits her right to choice IMO.

I think this is one of the most callous things I have ever read on MN.

LynLyn, men and women do not face the same consequences when having sex. By having sex, men risk the woman becoming pregnant and making a choice that he has no control over (just as some men may have preferred abortion when the woman chose not to, others may have wanted the opportunity to have the child but the woman decided on abortion, it can go both ways). Women risk being the one who becomes pregnant, the one who has to make a choice and the one who has to live with the physical and psychological consequences of the pregnancy and resulting decision.

I support abortion on demand up until birth. It is the only way that ensures complete bodily autonomy to women and equality to all foetuses. I highly doubt sex selection is a huge abortion issue in the UK, but if it is I think the solution is not to disclose the sex of the foetus rather than to attempt to legislate to prevent abortion - a woman who is determined to terminate a pregnancy based on sex will either lie to obtain one or seek an unsafe one from an illegal provider. As PPs have said, abortion due to sex is illegal, abortion laws are not the problem in this instance, the problem is practitioners not complying with the law.

Oooh we have some very strong pro-lifers on here

Post pubescent females have also been proven to be capable of using contraception Sardine. And they have been proven to be capable of taking risks.