To feel a little bit resentful in paying for school dinners

[sississy]

While other parents have it for free?
Or should I be just grateful I can afford to pay it?

Maybe I am answrin it myself aren't I?

www.economist.com/node/21547771

link working

Frequently been called a feckless wastrel on here, after all, I'm on benefits. I've also been reported. A long story.

Vouchers for all are not a fair way of doing things. People are entitled to spend the money they receive in the manner of their choice, and whether you agree with their purchases or not, that is the way it should be. I don't have any magic answers, but I do feel that as a well educated and hard working woman, I'm entitled to the same choices as others.

how does the subject of free school meals gets round to people on benefits should have vouchers, when a free school meal isn't paid for by cash anyway.

This is a nightmarish subject - as I said earlier, some parents do choose to spend what little money they have on "the wrong thing". Should they be allowed to do this, if it means their children are disadvantaged? No, I don't think they should.

I wish I had an answer. Clearly vouchers are not the way forward, as Dawn says, why the hell shouldn't she be able to buy a bottle of wine if she wants one?

It is nightmarish... no, vouchers/cards aren't suitable in terms of Dawndonna and other posters who don't let their children go without and I said that in an earlier post too. There are feckless parents though who are quite prepared to let their children go without... I have no problem with the government stipulating to them what they can't and can't buy. How the feckless parents are identified, I have no idea.

Do schools report malnourished/starving children these days? :(

I have worked in schools where we have given children breakfast every morning because we knew that the last thing they'd had to eat was yesterday's school dinner . Schools do report neglect but there are a lot more neglected children than folk suppose. School staff do as much as they can to help in my experience.

Good question mrsscoob.

It annoys me too.

Lying I actually think you have a fair point, but I don't have a clue as to how to go about rectifying the fact that some families do not spend the money as they should. I just feel very strongly that there are those of us who make good choices with what little we get and I admit to getting a bit prickly when people tell me how I should be spending it!

"This thread was about school meals and being able to afford them. People who can easily and those who receive them free don't need to think about them - the people who work and can't afford them aren't as lucky."

Thats exactly it isnt it. Those on benefits already get maximum tax credits and child benefit so should be feeding their children from that.

If children are going hungry then the school needs to inform social services.

A voucher system would solve lots (very few would choose to live on benefits if they knew no cash was involved but only vouchers for food/utilities and clothes) but there would be those that simply sell the vouchers in order to buy luxuries etc. A home delivery service from local suppliers/farmers would benefit everyone though, good nutrition for children, benefits get spent on what they were meant for and farmers and small local businesses get to stay open.

To ask few questions:
I made a mistake on my typing in my op _ big deal
Yes I have a problem with the 'V' on my computer -big deal
I never had school dinner, in my country we have a different system, I can explain how it works there if someone is interested...

As for the lady I am resentful about (another big deal I forget that sometimes ppl here are perfect they might aswell never feel resentful towards anyone) - I know about her because she works for my friend - she is not registered for sure, she has been working for the same family for the last 4.5 years, at the time when she started she was the only person in the area who was available to work from 7am and cook for the child and my friend was struggling because the only registered childminder with vacancies did not want to start at 7 and did not want to cook. I wasn't a childminder at that point and even though my friend asked me to work for her I refused.
Anyway, my friend trusts the lady and rely on her a lot, so she never wanted to change arrangements for a cheaper/better solution, and only now that she is having a 3rd child she is realising she has been overcharged.

I also carry out safeguarding work at my school - many of the families SS are involved with have children on FSM, and even though SS monitor and report and have meetings about every aspect of life for some of these families, there is no way of stipulating what personal money (however that is come by) is spent on.

One of the dads is an alcoholic, chooses to booze with his mates rather than having his kids on Saturday night visits - SS have said he cannot see his children until he stops drinking, he chooses not to. SS hands are tied.

You can't make people be better parents. There is no remit to make them spend money responsibly. I wish there was a magic answer, but there isn't.

Meanwhile, thank God for FSM.

OP
so actually she is their nanny, not their childminder - a TOTALLY different tax and benefits situation - no wonder your reports fell on deaf ears

and to all those who advocate vouchers
you'll need to get better window locks and alarms if that is brought in because crime will be used to supplement incomes

no, I don't have "the" answer - but I know that isn't it ....

Who on earth decides who can have vouchers and who can have cash??
I'm actually disgusted by that whole conversation, I would never dream of thinking that just because I work, then I am allowed to decide how other people spend their money, who made any of you judge and jury??

Are you going to make my employer pay ME in vouchers because I buy alcohol and cigarettes? I have 3 DCs and didn't realize that buying things for myself was a hanging offence

What a patronizing conversation

This is a "humourous" aside...

My dd2 is 7 and at her school, they get a card which you load withmoney and pay with their fingerprint, the free school meals get the same card preloaded and fingerprint system which I think is nice, I remember when I was at school people getting tokens and two different ques, paid and free meals....anyway...

I cannot persuade dd2 that the card does not come with money on it! Because some of her friends did...she is terribly cross with me for not letting her have a school dinner because YOU GET THEM ON THE CARD mum!

and again I don't have any prejudice against genuine people who needs to be on benefits. When I got pregnant we were kicked out of our shared flat and we would be homeless if we didn't finf those 2 lovely ladies who agreed to rent a bedroom in their flat to us. We couldn't afford to rent only for us and we were not entitled to any benefits even though my partner is British, because he being with me, someone outside the EU, he should be able to support ourselves whitout recourse to public funds.

Sorry if this has already been said, but to all of the posters saying 'This may be the only hot meal a child gets all day.' or 'I don't begrudge a child a decent hot meal' think on. . . . .

Many schools no longer have a kitchen, and for those children (whether paying or not) a school meal consists of a curled up sandwich, a yoghurt, an apple and a bottle of water. All of which is cold and imo is not what I would class as a decent meal.

My local primary school has expanded to double the size in recent years, yet one of the first things the school did when they started the expansion was to rip out the kitchen, and now all school meals are provided on a day to day basis by a sandwich company.

I would like to see them install a kitchen again, but they refuse to.

Agree tantrums - vouchers are definitely not the way to deal with this problem. People must live in an idealistic little bubble of society to think that is the way forward.

I'm lucky, fairly well off, quite isolated from the woes of Joe Bloggs, but my job makes me appreciate keenly the many layers of this debate.

It is very easy for people to say "vouchers, so they can only buy fruit and veg, no fags or booze", but 95% of people on FSM or other benefits are as decent as anybody else.

It's how to deal with that other 5%. Doesn't anybody, Labour, Tory or Monster Raving Loony have any viable suggestions?

Diabolo, that situation could occur in a family with money too. Alcoholism doesn't only hit poor families. Bad parenting doesn't only hit poor families.

That's why every child should get FSMs, otherwise the whole point of the system is failing children.

I work in a school and ocassionly cover lunchtimes. It's shocking when you see a family that appears to be well off send both their Y1 and Y6 child in with a lunchbox containing half a sandwich each. It does happen.

I've also known other well off families who have had to deal with close family illness who have sent their dc in with a bag of crisps and an apple, not becaus ether can't afford it, but because thereis too much else going on at home for packed lunch making to be a priority. Obviously that's only temporary, but that child is still just as much in need at that time as poorer families.

No one knows anyone else's situation do they? So how do you decide who is genuine ffs?
Get a grip, pay for your school dinners (or don't) but please don't presume you know someone's financial situation just because they receive state benefits.

I don't know how you can call her but she works at her own home and looks after her own child together with my friend's children.
Also she calls herself a childminder and she is not registered for sure, but some people don't know it.
Actually now I remember she told my friend at the begning of their arrangement that she would look in registeringm than she realised it was too much paper work and Ofsted regulations and gave up. My friend was hooked already.

So really that's what it's about then, you are pissed of with your friend because she is apparently an unregistered child minder, makes more money than you and gets fsm?
And we have now had to turn this into a debate about how the taxpayers should rid the world of parents on benefits buying a bottle of wine?

Again FFS

Acid corrodes it?s own container.

My dad was a single parent and we lived in a one bed flat in inner city Glasgow. Our flat was damp and our oven was broken when we moved in. So my free school meal was the only hot meal that I got a day - I wouldn't call it a decent meal. My dad smoked and drank - not excessively - and I would never begrudge him that. He clothed me before himself, he fed me before himself and he gave me the bedroom and slept on the sofa (which resulted in terrible back problems which almost stopped him ever working again). If he needed cigarettes and alcohol to make his life bearable, he deserved them.

Why should tobacco and alcohol be reserved for the richer classes, especially since poorer people often have more need for that escapism?

Your friend is not 'hooked' and she is not being overcharged.
People are allowed to charge what they want for childcare and she isnt holding a gun to your friends head.
You already said she was the only person willing to provide care from 7am and cook.

Most CM dont start at 7am because they dont want to or cant manage the hours.

You have no idea about this woman's financial situation and she may still be perfectly entitled to FSM. As you have already reported her and no action has been taken i would say that is a pretty strong indicator that she is.

You seem to be basing your dislike of FSM on your resentment of one woman who you have decided is breaking the law.
A woman who appears to be in working in direct competition with you.

This thread doesnt do you any favours at all mate.

Always nice to read such articulate well reasoned and rational posts OP.