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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To leave MumsNet because it's becoming RadFeministNet?

999 replies

SigmundaFraudina · 21/02/2012 17:56

Had enough of their agenda being forced down my throat whether I want it or not. Major recruitment drive going on lately, and serious opression of other posters views. Just gets worse and worse. This was not what I believed MN was supposed to be about.

I'm off.

OP posts:
seeker · 22/02/2012 17:53

Not ignored- but why won't any of them actually give a couple of examples? If I have been rude or bullying then I'd obviously like to know about it- I genuinely don't think I have been. But if I have then I'd like to apologise and try to explain. . But I need to know what I've said first!

catgirl1976 · 22/02/2012 17:54

Patti

I don't think anyone wants to shut down intelligent adult discussion

OTheHugeManatee · 22/02/2012 17:56

I thought we were having an intelligent adult discussion.

OTheHugeManatee · 22/02/2012 18:09

Ok, so here's an example that's maybe a bit more apposite than the rape one. Like you, seeker, I struggle to reconcile 'I'm a feminist' with 'Well she was asking for it.'

But there's a certain picture of what 'the patriarchy' is, how it operates and what should be done about it that is common to more radical feminist worldviews but should IMO be a bit more up for debate without disqualifying me from calling myself a feminist.

It would be nonsense to say you can believe anything at all and still be a feminist. But the range of things one can believe and call oneself a feminist is considerably wider than the range of things one can believe and call oneself a radical feminist. I think it's important not to elide the two categories.

PattiMayor · 22/02/2012 18:13

That's what this thread is about though isn't it? Attempting to shut down intelligent adult discussion?

Whatmeworry · 22/02/2012 18:15

This is a place for debate and discussion. Yes, sometimes it gets heated. But if you can't take the heat, get out of kitchen. Don't try and shut down intelligent adult discussion.

These threads erupt every few months or so, the criticisms of the MN Feministas are remarkably consistent over all the 9 months or so I have been here, ie they are:

  • incredibly rude
  • incredibly dogmatic
  • ditto inflexible
  • tend to flock onto a thread in numbers
  • tend to shout down anyone else.

The proof of this behaviour is in the pudding. The Feminist section on MN is poorly trafficked (the common experience of most visitors being the above rudeness) and every few months a thread on AIBU comes up which hits 1000 posts very fast and is basically the rest of MN telling them to desist in this behaviour on AIBU or disappear.

What really interested me was about a month ago the first anti MN Feminista thread broke out about them in the Relationship section.

ClothesOfSand · 22/02/2012 18:21

The feminist section is 'poorly' trafficked for a number of reasons. I don't use it very much because of tolling from people who don't generally use MN, and baiting of feminists by people who do use MN, particularly by anti-feminists saying really nasty things to people who post about distressing personal experiences. It is easier to get feminist support for personal situations elsewhere.

I don't see these threads as being the whole of MN complaining about feminists. It is generally a few anti-feminists who always turn up and make personal remarks. Most of MN doesn't care one way or the other, because MN has all sorts of different posters with very different perspectives. That is its appeal.

TheCrackFox · 22/02/2012 18:26

I pretty much stopped going on the feminist section because of the MRA trolls and all their sock puppetry ways. Infact it is also the reason I don't really visit mumsnet much nowaday. Please note that I didn't feel the need to start a thread announcing that I was taking a break.

However, after reviewing this thread it would seem the vast majority of posters are in support of the feminists.

PattiMayor · 22/02/2012 18:27

I consider myself one of them Whatmeworry and I don't see an awful lot of the behaviour you're describing. It's very difficult to argue with someone who's a lot more informed than you are. I suspect that's the problem.

I wouldn't want to discuss the finer points of fiscal policy with an economist. But many of the women who post on FWR are incredibly well informed. They are highly educated and extremely well read about the topic.

This whole discussion reminds me of when Valhalla got hounded (sorry!) off the boards. She lives and breathes dogs. It's her life's work and every now and then she would lose her patience with people who were a lot less informed than her. They got really pissed off when she told them in no uncertain terms that what they were proposing was silly/cruel/short-sighted. And she was told that she was a bully and unkind etc.

I think MN is valuable precisely because of the deep knowledge some posters bring to the board. Sometimes it's pretty uncomfortable hearing what they have to say but it's really valid. Without then, we risk turning into HunsNet.

YuleingFanjo · 22/02/2012 18:30

I agree ClothesOfSand.
Everytime I post something there or read something there it does feel like the same people are out en masse trying to shout people down, and it's not the Radfems.

PattiMayor · 22/02/2012 18:33

And of course you're right, ClothesofSand, most of the posts on this thread have been in support. And that's very heartening :)

catgirl1976 · 22/02/2012 18:39

the vast majority of posters are in support of the feminists

Well of course they are. The vast majority of posters are feminists.

Feminism is a broad church with a lot of different views. The problems only really arise when you get posters saying "there is only one view of feminism. This is it and if you don't agree you are not a feminist". People can find that pretty difficult.

Also - beliefs can get argued as facts which can be frustrating for people. I do think some posters can lose sight of the fact that being passionate about a belief doesn't make it a fact. But that happens on every board and on many topics.

ClothesOfSand · 22/02/2012 18:43

Well of course people find it difficult, because people don't like having their prejudices pointed out. I think it happens far more on MN in connection with racism than with sexism though. There are frequent threads where the OP claims they are not being racist and a whole load of other posters then point out that actually they are. I suspect people find it more difficult with sexism because most of us are women and so the poster's prejudice is internalised.

Nyac · 22/02/2012 18:44

The feminist section of Mumsnet is poorly trafficked because MRA trolls and anti-feminist mumsnetters drove a lot of the feminists off. There used to be more radicals actually posting regularly and the section was very busy.

Nyac · 22/02/2012 18:48

"I can try Jericho but as a wishy washy funfem feminist, I don't know a huge amount about radical feminism."

If you don't know much about radical feminism YRC then why were you stating earlier that it wasn't easy to classify it? It doesn't seem like a lack of knowledge on Mumsnet about aspects of feminism leads to not pronouncing on them.

catgirl1976 · 22/02/2012 18:48

No - they find it difficult because it is an inflexible, dogmatic view that alienates people and makes intelligent adult discussion impossible.

ClothesOfSand · 22/02/2012 18:53

I don't find it impossible to have an intelligent adult conversation that includes the views of radical feminism, so clearly it is only impossible for some people.

BasilRathbone · 22/02/2012 18:54

I always find there's lots of adult discussion there.

Smile
catgirl1976 · 22/02/2012 18:56

I didn't say it was difficult to have an intelligent adult conversation that includes the view of radical feminism.

I said it is difficult to have an intelligent adult discussion with anyone who says
"there is only one view of feminism. This is it and if you don't agree you are not a feminist

Nyac · 22/02/2012 18:58

What other views of feminism would you like to see included though catgirl? Anything in particular? It's all a bit vague at the moment.

ClothesOfSand · 22/02/2012 18:59

Well feminism does have a specific meaning. I don't think most people do find that difficult to understand or enter into a conversation on the basis that there it does have a specific meaning and that certain views, are by definition, in opposition to those of feminism. In much the same way that 'gay rights' has a specific meaning.

catgirl1976 · 22/02/2012 19:02

Nyac your question makes no sense at all.

I am saying that feminism is a broad church. If you do get a poster who belives there is only one narrow view of feminism which must be subscribed too otherwise you are not a feminist, then it is very difficult to have an intelligent discussion with that person.

Is there a bit of that you disagree with or don't understand

sternface · 22/02/2012 19:03

But the 'rest of MN' doesn't rally round to decry a group that you label 'MN Feministas' Whatmeworry.

There is a minority of about 10 regular posters as far as I can tell, who take any opportunity to attack feminism and feminists. You're in the minority there actually.

catgirl1976 · 22/02/2012 19:04

clothes - yes it does have a specific meaning. That women should be equal to men politically, socially etc

Beyond that, there are many differing views within feminism.

ClothesOfSand · 22/02/2012 19:07

So what are you arguing about then Catgirl? There are different people on MN with different ideas about feminism. Just as there are with every other topic. They don't all agree. Why any of this should be a big deal is something you're not explaining.