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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to wonder how people can not believe in Evolution .......

283 replies

cookielove · 19/02/2012 21:41

After a discussion at work which actually started about a childs' dress (day nursery) leading onto the duggars and then religion, it came clear to me that several of my work colleagues do not believe in evolution and not only that but also dinosaurs not existing Shock

Now i can understand the more religious people not believing as Evolution and adam and eve clash, but for those who were not religious how can you not believe in Evolution. Its proven.

I mean really how can people not believe in Evolution or dinosaurs.

I quote one of my work colleagues 'well there's lots of dinosaur toys so they must have been real' .... WTAF?

Please tell MN that you believe in Evolution, and dinosaurs ......

OP posts:
MixedBerries · 19/02/2012 22:03

I used to have strange discussions with an ex's sister who was also very religious. It was when I was at uni studying geology. Obviously, studying geology involved quite a lot of fossils. She had a whole host of books "disproving" evolution...one of the proofs was that the fossil record was made up, had huge inconsistencies and she'd constantly ask where the "half man half crocodile" fossil was. I asked her what she though fossils actually were, if not the preserved/lithified remains of past lifeforms and she reckoned they were structures put there by God in order to test our faith (??!!!???). How can you argue with that?

Abcinthia · 19/02/2012 22:07

Several of my ex's friends didn't believe in evolution or dinosaurs. They were really quite rude about me, when they found out I did believe in evolution/dinosaurs and liked nothing more than pointing out how utterly wrong and stupid I was.

I tried telling them how dinousars were real, their skeletons and fossils have been found and one of them told me about how they were actually giant human skeletons that were put together wrong. Confused

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid · 19/02/2012 22:07

My favorite comment re evolution was made by a particularly dim person (she happens to be Christian) ....

"If evolution is true how come we don't all have wings."

Lueji · 19/02/2012 22:07

MixedBerries, you can't.

That's why science and religion should not mix.
Anything that can be shown scientifically could be said that it was made to be like that by God to trick us.

I don't like such a God.
I thought he had "given" us brains to be able to think and understand our surroundings.

I wonder if there was an 11th, so far undiscovered, commandment: thou shall not believe in Evolution. Grin

TheSecondComing · 19/02/2012 22:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Mumof1plustwins · 19/02/2012 22:08

My friends mum doesn't believe in dinosaurs! Quite a shocker.
I on the other hand love dinosaurs, have since I was little and the NHM is my favourite place! Grin I'm glad I now have two boys to play dinosaurs with and get matching dinosaur duvets/pyjamas/toys Wink

fullofregrets · 19/02/2012 22:09

We believe in evolution but my DH has a theory. It's brilliant. He believes in evolution up to a point but then thinks there must be a reason why we evolved further but other species stayed the same. He says we defy evolution because it takes so long for a species to evolve and we simply haven't been around for long enough. So DH's theory is that aliens introduced another strand of dna or bred with a chimp or something and that, mumsnetters, is how we came to be.

fullofregrets · 19/02/2012 22:10

Also, how can anyone not believe in dinosaurs? I do not understand. They are a fact surely?

ElizabethPonsonby · 19/02/2012 22:11

Has he been watching 'Quatermass and the Pit' fullofregrets ? Grin

Lueji · 19/02/2012 22:11

Sorry to break it to you, TheSecondComing

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hominidae

Although it could be argued that it's chimps and gorillas that are hominids Wink, so fair enough.

asiatic · 19/02/2012 22:12

Lueji, it isn't really a firm conclusion as such, it is just that the interpretation of the evidence seems to me to be incrediblly unsound, for example dating dating a particular fossil because it is identified as austalapiphicus (spelling?) but at the same time identifying australapiphicus by it's date. The date and the identification became accepted facts, without any independant evidence for either. The whole of human evolution seems to be similarly constructed. To me, the evidence simply isn't there. That in itself doesn't mean it didn't happen, just that there is no evidence that it did. But taken with human characteristics such as a love of animals ( domesticating animals such as cats anddogs cost early man far more than he benefitted) love of music, these seem to go countert to the arguements for evolution, as the selection pressure would be against these characteristics.

I'm not saying humans didn't evolve as is portrayed in my GCSE textbook, just that I don't think the full story is there, and it may be wrong entirely.

And if I said that about any other branch of science, noone wouldbat an eyelid, but evolution is almost a faith in itself, which is a shame, because it is a very interesting subject, but unfortunatly open minded investigation and discussion in this area is almost non existant.

ShagOBite · 19/02/2012 22:13

here, if it's important to you.

Original poster
cookielove · 19/02/2012 22:13

Well after the conversations at work, i went home and researched Evolution as a whole, so i could come back to the doubters with some sort of evidence. I read the most up to date stuff that came up in google, one of the things it stated was that is proven as in as much as science can prove it, and i assume scientist are continuing to discover new information so new information will at at some point come to light.

However in my heart of hearts i do believe that we as a species have evolved, that other species have evolved, and i think there is an overwhelming amount of evidence to prove this, and not only in the fossils we find but in animal species across the world.

OP posts:
rumngingerbeer · 19/02/2012 22:13

I can't handle it when MN gets rational, so I'm out.

Lueji · 19/02/2012 22:14

So, fullofregrets, your DH knows that other species stayed the same? Hmm
Not really.

And how would birds have come to be if there were no dinosaurs? Shock

AppleShaped · 19/02/2012 22:15

catgirl My father said that the bones/fossils are not real, and that the government have been fabricating stories for years eg aliens etc.

catgirl1976 · 19/02/2012 22:17

I am amazed that people are so open about believing in creationism.

TheSecondComing · 19/02/2012 22:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fullofregrets · 19/02/2012 22:17

Well, ok, maybe not all stayed the same exactly but they haven't evolved as far as humans. And dinosaurs were around for much longer than us but didn't evolve in the same way.

Anyway, that is DH's theory! That because we have evolved so differently that something extra was added by E.T. along the way.

Original poster
cookielove · 19/02/2012 22:19

Its the dinosaur one that is very Shock ing

OP posts:
catgirl1976 · 19/02/2012 22:19

wow apple

DH just told me that is how creationist explain fossils

I was Shock

worzelswife · 19/02/2012 22:20

"I'm a scientist, and a christian, so am in a position to look with an open mind"

I'm going to have to give you a Biscuit

I do know what you're trying to say, but as someone with a science degree and an atheist, I'm pretty sure I'm equally capable of looking at things with an open mind.

MixedBerries · 19/02/2012 22:21

asiatic wrg to the dating. I'm afraid that's not true. Dating is very accurately carried out by carbon dating, potassium-argon dating, uranium-thorium dating etc. The independent evidence from many different branches of science is overwhelming and these branches have independently come to the same conclusion.

fullofregrets · 19/02/2012 22:21

So my ammonite fossil which I found when I was five and was so proud of was not, in fact, a prehistoric relic but had been left by god?

Wow, I'm even more proud of it now. ;)

Lueji · 19/02/2012 22:26

Asiatic, why do you think it cost more to humans to domesticate dogs and cats?

Domestication is a recent phenomenon, and apparently occurred more than once in dogs, which are basically wolves.

Early domestication was intrinsically linked to benefit to animal and human.
For example, dogs help in hunting, defense and even transport (innuits), but dogs also benefit by having better access to food.
Cats are hardly domesticated (the little selfish bastards), but having cats around is beneficial to humans to control pests, particularly rats.

I agree that the fossil record for human evolution is not great, but it is a complex and fascinating story. Still under study.
Some fossils previously considered to be direct ancestors of humans may actually represent side lineages or even ancestors of other apes/hominids.
It is clear, though that humans have evolved. If nothing else, consider H. neanderthalensis, for which there are even some mitochondrial DNA sequences.
A phylogenetic analysis of those is consistent with a relatively recent (tens of thousands of years ago) branch of the genus Homo.

It is clear that macro evolution has occurred. Just some details of how it has occurred are still under investigation.
It will be impossible to ever have a full story due to the nature of the fossil record. But that is the beauty of research.

If you haven't recently, do take a look at new discoveries in the fossil record.

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