I didn't say anything to this new Mum, and now I wonder if I should have done...

[lurcherlover]

In Starbucks, a couple came in with their baby (brand new - no more than a couple of weeks old). Dad goes to get coffees, Mum sits down opposite me and starts to make a bottle up. She got a bottle of water out, mixed formula powder in it then proceeded to feed it straight to baby. Obviously therefore the water had been boiled at home, but allowed to cool while they were out. I assumed she didn't realise the bacteria are in the formula, but believed the widely-held myth that it's the water that's dangerous. I nearly said something - I wasn't at all going to be rude, I was going to say something along the lines of "I hope you don't mind me saying, but you'd be better keeping a flask of water straight from the kettle with you, mixing the powder in a bit of that and then topping it up with cooled boiled water so baby can drink it" - but I held off and didn't say anything because I'm a wimp I thought it wasn't my business. But afterwards, I thought, if it had been me and I was doing something (however unwittingly) that might be putting my baby's health at risk, I would want another Mum to tell me so in as non-threatening a way as possible. So I wonder if I should have said something. What do you think?

(Disclaimer: this is in NO WAY intended to be an anti-FF thread - I just wanted to point out to her the safest possible way to formula-feed her baby, not in any way to judge, so please don't think that comes into it)

I thought it was 3 hours? Aggrah.

I make up bottles as per Starbucks lady when out or cartons, depends on how wealthy I am feeling in any given week.

I the correct way at home, depending on how much Ds2 is screaming. So about 25% of the time. That is 75% crappy mum. Factor in 6% of contaminated box risk, what d'ya think DS2's chances are?!

I get the earlier post, I think

If the powder is the problem then you could just pour the hot water (above 70c) on to the powder then top up with cooled water to the right temperature?

Nobody is saying everlong.

dont know if this has been said but OP it is possible they have done what I used to do with DS1. Boil kettle and put the water in a bottle straightaway. Put bottle in an insulated bottle bag, and it is the right temp within about 3/4 - 1 hour. Just enough time for them to have mooched about a bit and then go for a coffee.

Did you go over and dip your finger in the water to make sure it was cold?

BTW if you said anything you'd have probably got in this order

What I don't understand is if you make up the bottle with boiled water (over 70 degrees) to kill off the bacteria, why can't you store it made up in the fridge? You've killed the bacteria with hot water, does it miraculously re-generate as the made up formula cools? Or maybe it is zombie bacteria?!

Sorry, that sounds flippant but I really do not understand the danger once you have killed the bacteria in boiling water.

I've been a nanny for 25 years. My first charge we made bottles up with cold boiled water from the kettle. I've made it up with boiled water and stored it in the fridge for 24 hours and stored bottled boiled water in the fridge and added formula to reheated water. My current charge is 9 months and has had expressed breast milk but we have recently moved onto ready made formula, which I guess has been made with boiling water then bottled/cartoned and then stored for months. Why is that any different to doing the same at home for 24 hours???

Gribble - if the water was at the right temp for the formula (70deg) it would have been far too hot for the baby, so clearly it wasn't right.

McPhee - you measure out cold water in one bottle and hot water in the other, add cold to hot to get the 'feeding bottle' at 70deg , mix in the powder and top with the remainder of the cold water, shake and feed :)

Callaird - there's more than one type of bacteria involved. It will only grow slowly in the fridge, but it will grow. The heating & storage process is completely different in long life products than what you can do at home.

Can you drop me off in 1999 on the way MaryZ? I want to have words with my HV too.

I often wonder if it is all some conspiracy theory designed to scare mothers out of FF.

How come the advice is different on the tub of toddler formula than it is on the baby stuff, you would think that they would have the same risk of contamination but the baby one has all the blurb about waiting 30 mins after the kettle has boiled to make it up at the right temperature but the toddler one just says to make up with cooled boiled water.

I often wondered that squeaky x whether it was just to make breast feeding seem more appealing or whether it was down to the formula manufacturers to promote the expensive cartons . Because no way is it possible to go anywhere or do anything if u follow the guide lines to the letter every time . And I would love to see hv/ docs/ midwives etc cope with twins or more in the middle of the night whilst following said guidelines . Even hospitals just hand u sterilized water to mix with the powder ( least mine did as the formular my dd was on is unavailable in carton form) :)

I assume it's because toddlers will have developed more immunity

MaryZ - I understand your annoyance (yours too Sparkling), but some of this info is as new as 2007. All we can do is keep trying to make things safer really isn't it.

Squeaky - I don't think you really mean that, babies have actually died from the bacteria carried in the powder.

ABigGirl - not sure? Maybe the toddler formula doesn't have the same base product where the bacteria is generally found? Or simply because toddlers have better immunity.

WheresMy - of course you can, instead of taking one lot of water you take 2 lots, or just take a flask of hotwater, make the bottle up and stand it in some cold water for a few mins. Or use a carton when you are out. It's really not hard. Same at night, flask of hot, flask of cold - mix to 70 deg, top with cold.

A step-by-step guide to preparing a powdered-formula feed
Step 1 Fill the kettle with at least 1 litre of fresh tap water (don?t use water that has been boiled before).
Step 2 Boil the water. Then leave the water to cool for no more than 30 minutes so that it remains at a temperature of at least 70ºC.
Step 3 Clean and disinfect the surface you are going to use.
Step 4 It?s very important that you wash your hands.
Step 5 If you are using a cold-water steriliser, shake off any excess solution from the bottle and the teat, or rinse the bottle with cooled boiled water from the kettle (not the tap).
Step 6 Stand the bottle on a clean surface.
Step 7 Keep the teat and cap on the upturned lid of the steriliser. Avoid putting them on the work surface.
Step 8 Follow the manufacturer?s instructions and pour the correct amount of water that you need into the bottle. Double check that the water level is correct. Always put the water in the bottle first, while it is still hot, before adding the powdered infant formula.
Step 9 Loosely fill the scoop with formula, according to the manufacturer?s instructions, and level it off using either the flat edge of a clean, dry knife or the leveller provided. Different tins of formula come with different scoops. Make sure you use only the scoop that is enclosed with the powdered infant formula that you are using.
Step 10 Holding the edge of the teat, put it on the bottle. Then screw the retaining ring onto the bottle.
Step 11 Cover the teat with the cap and shake the bottle until the powder is dissolved.
Step 12 It is important to cool the formula so it is not too hot to drink. Do this by holding the bottom half of the bottle under cold running water. Make sure that the water does not touch the cap covering the teat.
Step 13 Test the temperature of the infant formula on the inside of your wrist before giving it to your baby. It should be body-temperature, which means it should feel warm or cool, but not hot.
Step 14 If there is any made-up infant formula left after a feed, throw it away.

Fucking Hell!

If I'd FF I'd have done ALL of that, because that's how paranoid I was when the DCs were tiny. Thank God I had no problems BF - I would have had a nervous breakdown otherwise.

I didn't ff so I'm not quite sure what your point was (was it that the water was cold?) but if the instructions are on the box and a midwife would have also told them, they probably have another 7 children at home and are just cutting corners and enjoying time with their latest .

I did what the mum in the op did on both of mine dc.

I don't understand the uk bottle sterlization of bottes, as in many countries it is not done

I had a flask hon x it leaked soaked the change bag thank god it hadn't been on back of buggy and dripped onto my dd I also use public transport alot so carrying hot water with me scared the hell out of me as was often loaded up with school bags baby etc having to collapse buggy. I'm not mocking any ones choice each to their own! We do what we need to do and yes it woulda been far easier if bf had worked out but it didn't and sometimes we need to cut corners every now and then x by no means is this a rant at anyone just stating the facts as they stand for me , x x x

As posted by others, the recommendation now is to make each feed up fresh with water boiled and left to cool to 70degC (hot enough to kill bacteria, cool enough not to kill the nutrients) however, the WHO acknowledges that sometimes feeds have to be made up in advance and give this advice (PIF is powdered infant formula)

Preparing feeds in advance for later use
It is best to make PIF fresh for each feed and to consume immediately, as reconstituted PIF provides ideal conditions for the growth of harmful bacteria. For practical reasons, however, feeds may need to be prepared in advance. The steps below outline the safest way to prepare and store feeds for later use. If refrigeration is not available, feeds should be prepared fresh and consumed immediately rather than prepared in advance for later use.

1. Follow steps 1 to 7 of Section 3.1.2. If using feeding cups, a batch of formula should be prepared in a clean, sterile jar that is no larger than 1 litre, with a lid. The prepared PIF can be refrigerated and dispensed into cups as needed.

1. Place cooled feeds in a refrigerator. The temperature of the refrigerator should be no higher than 5 °C.

1. Feeds can be stored in the refrigerator for up to 24 hours.

So you can make up feeds using 70degC water and leave them in the fridge to cool if you want to, but making formula up with bottled water, or cold water (even if it's been boiled previously) is NOT advised because of the risk to the baby.

I'm pretty blase about most of the NHS or WHO recommendations on anything but making sure the water was boiled and cooled sufficiently was the one thing we made sure we did as it was DD's health that would have been affected had we not.

Whoops! I've been feeding my 8 month old like that for a while now My HV did tell me that it was better to store cooled boiled water then mix the formula in, rather than store a couple of bottles made up.
Maybe it was me you saw in Starbucks...the shame of it!

Don't worry lamb no one told my hospital either as I was given those little bottles of cow and gate sterile water to mix with the powder ( formula was unavailable both in the hospital pre packed bottles or in cartons) x

YANBU

Replace 'formula' with 'mud' and most people would be saying 'YANBU' - there are potentially dangerous bacteria in the formula. Surely that is the issue. Sterilise those bottles all you like but if you then go and put non-sterile bacteria laden product into it, you have wasted your time.

We used to have to pre prepare the water for nursery, they weren't allowed to, how does that work then.

I fed both my dds like this. Didn't know it was supposed to be any different. At 8 and 5 I think we can say that they survived.