I didn't say anything to this new Mum, and now I wonder if I should have done...

[lurcherlover]

In Starbucks, a couple came in with their baby (brand new - no more than a couple of weeks old). Dad goes to get coffees, Mum sits down opposite me and starts to make a bottle up. She got a bottle of water out, mixed formula powder in it then proceeded to feed it straight to baby. Obviously therefore the water had been boiled at home, but allowed to cool while they were out. I assumed she didn't realise the bacteria are in the formula, but believed the widely-held myth that it's the water that's dangerous. I nearly said something - I wasn't at all going to be rude, I was going to say something along the lines of "I hope you don't mind me saying, but you'd be better keeping a flask of water straight from the kettle with you, mixing the powder in a bit of that and then topping it up with cooled boiled water so baby can drink it" - but I held off and didn't say anything because I'm a wimp I thought it wasn't my business. But afterwards, I thought, if it had been me and I was doing something (however unwittingly) that might be putting my baby's health at risk, I would want another Mum to tell me so in as non-threatening a way as possible. So I wonder if I should have said something. What do you think?

(Disclaimer: this is in NO WAY intended to be an anti-FF thread - I just wanted to point out to her the safest possible way to formula-feed her baby, not in any way to judge, so please don't think that comes into it)

Something to do with using water that has been standing, even though it's been in the fridge from what I remember

I'm going to say it again. The OP had no idea what formula the lady was using. And if it was Neocate/Enfamil they look the same as all others but you need COLD water. Attempting to change the temp of a bottle of boiling or even 70degree water to COLD takes bloody ages and you may as well put it in the bottle and wait for it to cool as you go about your day.
So unless you know exactly which formula the lady was using, YABU to assume she's doing it wrong.

but it wont have been in the fridge, ie boil the water and then put some in a bottle ready for later, it will just cool whilst you are out and about and then use hot water for the other bit. its fine its just water!! its been boiled and cooled, its not like its being left for days, it likely to only be a couple of hours.

its boiled water, going into a sterilised bottle, i cannot see what the problem is? tbh you dont have to sterilse bottles as long as they are washed well. and you wouldnt have to use boiled then cooled water, you could just use tap water i guess? the reason we boil it is to have it HOT to sterlise the powder, most drinking water in the uk is actually safe and wouldnt need to be boiled to make it safe tho i would for a baby under 6mths, but once 6mths old they can drink regular tap water anyway so i would mix the powder with hot water but the extra measured out water i added could well be just non boiled tap water as long as its measured out and is the right amount then it would be fine.

i just don't get it... it's SO easy to stick a bottle of cooled boiled water into the micro for however long your micro takes to get to 70degs, then add the powder and then run it under the tap for a wee bit to cool. why the resistance?

and it's not 'just one baby in Belgium', nor is the advice 'hysterical'.

at the end of the day it's your choice whether to follow best practice when it comes to making up formula feeds, if you wish to take unnecessary risks when not doing so it easy then go for it. but snorting at those who want to follow the guidelines and calling them 'hysterical' is a bit pathetic and smacks to me of a lack of confidence in your position.

You're right BagofHolly - ds was on enfamil for awhile and that had to be mixed with fridge cold water, it felt odd to do it when i had been so careful for the rest of the time.

Also all the people who go on about training their babies to drink it cold, sometimes that just isn't possible. If ds had his milk cold, it would make his reflux much worse, he also wouldn't touch it if it wasn't warm.

yes at home i just make and cool under a running tap but when out i would use the half and half method so i am mixing the powder with 70 deg water and then add in the rest of the measured water but cooled so that the bottle is then drinking temp with no waiting around.

it is easy to do i agree aitch, i still say people can make the choice themselves but i find it easy to make it fresh at home and use the half and half method for out and about.

and re the milk that has to be made with cold water, if thats what the instructions say then obviously you are doing it right! i would assume that that formula powder is made in a different way and so there isnt the risk of the bugs? or i would hope so anyway! and if your child has to have if for reasons of health then you dont have much choice!
re hot/cold milk, my ds4 woudl have his cold but dd has to have hers warmer than is recomended its the only way she would have it! and obviously if cold made reflux worse then you would be made to make them have it cold.

yep, half and half is easy when out, iirc that's what we did. or even just took cooled boiled and banked on a restaurant being able to provide us with some boiling water...

yes restaraunts/cafe etc all good for hot water, my local waitrose will give you a tomme tippe flask full of hot water for making up feeds etc and offered cold water in a jug to cool it down etc.

the half and half method is also useful in the middle of the night for a super quick feed, but running it under the cold tap literally only take a few mins, i stand it in a bowl of cold water and then run the cold tap into the bowl and it cools very quickly.

i dont know what hte advice used to be, my first 3 were totallly bfed and then i switched to formula at 4mthsish? with ds4 and again with dd and the advice was to make it up with hot water and cool, i think someone on a parenting forum mentioned the 50/50 method for when out.

if i remember, making each one fresh was easier when they were a bit older, but in the mad early unpredictable days i found it easier to do half and half. I don't think the special formulas are treated differently, so the risk is there, which is frustrating.

well mine never had formula in the very early days, they were 3/4mths old and slightly more predictable, so i imagine it is a bit of a pita when they are little but equally they are MORE at risk the more little they are so it makes sense to make it up fresh and the 50/50 method means it really takes not time at all so you could do that at home to be quick if need be :)

and that is crap that the special formulas arent treated differently, they need to be if they have to be made with cold water and thats very irresponsible of the manufacturers to essentially dictate that you HAVE to put your baby at risk!

really, you don't think they have to be treated in some way to kill the e salawotsit? they MUST, surely? it's merely a question of exposing the powder to heat, i think.

We were prescribed nutraprem but the instructions were to make it up with boiled water not cold like neocate, You'd think it would have to be treated differently as prem baby's are more at risk of gastric problems

Moomin - there was a case in Tennessee in 2001 where a whole batch of Portagen (a US prem formula was contaminated with E. Sakazakii) a baby died but in part of the investigation into the death they found that other babies on the NICU were infected with E.Sakazakii so were able to treat them. The only babies affected were ones fed thisparticular brand of powdered formula, the other babies were fed liquid formulas. The NICU switched to liquid feeds (in the US they make liquid concentrate as well as RTF and they are both sterile and shelf stable) from powder due to the risk to the prems they were looking after (exceptions applied though as some formulas are only available as a powder).

I want to reiterate though that E.Sakazakii (then known as Chronobacter Sakazakii) was found to have killed two babies in the UK in 1961 that is 50 years ago.

It is not one lone case in Belgium, this has been going on for decades.

We now have a way to minimise the risk, yes it does make formula feeding more difficult (if you are comparing it to using cold water and keeping it in the fridge for 24h) BUT it takes away some of the risk associated with ffing. Why not make your life a tiny bit more difficult if it means there is less chance your baby might become gravely ill (or even just a little bit ill - 70C+ water will get rid of Salmonella too which can cause 'tummy bugs' in it's milder forms).

BagofHolly What about Aptamil? Looked for the instructions online but can't find them.

My SIL was TOLD to do this in hosp on all 3 of her kids (now almost 3, almost 2 and 2 months old) for bottles (as in use water previously boiled and cooled, and use it at room temp - no heating of milk once mixed). Whereas I was told (DD is now 6 and hosp in different area of same country) to always use freshly boiled water and leave that cool to drinking temp (warm) - and always reheat if previously mixed and fully cooled.

Different strokes for different folks. And as SIL is odd enough at the best of times, I said it was different to what I'd been told, but that I reckoned they had just changed their guidelines in the meantime (not what I believed - but all I was going to say). And only said it the once - after that, it's her business.

And, in fairness, all 3 kids seem fine (well, youngest has not yet had bottles, but the other 2 did after first few weeks and did really well on it).

Oh God! This thread's going round in circles.

MixedBerries - It's the formula feeding version of Groundhog Day

Have not read all the pages of this thread in detail but - Am a bit to be honest as this is how I made it for both DD and DS.... They were FF from birth and I know I was a bit "uptight" about things like this so I cant imagine how I missed it?! Could it be that they changed the instructions like they do about weaning, and everything else? What happens with those ready made cartons? Is that heat treated so it is sterile because you dont have the heat them up. I always used boiled, cooled water and then just mixed it with formula as they both hated warm milk..... Neither of them were sicky children. In fact DS is 4 and has only been sick once and that was about 3 weeks ago. Im glad you didnt say anything tbh

if your kids are that age then it told you how to make up the feeds on the box.

Glusticks, BagofHolly is talking about special formulas, Aptamil's instructions are the same as all the others (boil fresh each time etc). Ds's formula had to be mixed cold because otherwise the thickeners would set like concrete!

Biddypop, did you read the thread!?

Pages and pages of same old, same old.
"I know how to feed your baby better than you....look, I've googled and everything!"

I couldn't give a flying toot how other people choose to go about feeding their children. As such, I'm glad the OP didn't say anything.The reaction would only ever have been a negative one. Had it been me, I would've fixed her with a hard stare and told her to mind her own business.
Having had three babies, I well aware how the world and her auntie all think they know how to do it better than me. It's not something I've ever had patience for, and I wouldn't dream of approaching a stranger in Starbucks to put them right about how to feed their new baby. People that do, are oddballs and a pain in the arse.

I wasn't aware the bacteria was in the milk mind!!!I must say I used to take ready made formula (not powdered) when I was going out anywhere, then just ask for some hot water to warm it up in a cup.
I just thought...what are bottle warmers for then?

I have also seen loads of Mums heating bottles up in microwaves and not even testing them before giving them to baby......maybe Health visitors should be warning people about all these things?