I didn't say anything to this new Mum, and now I wonder if I should have done...

[lurcherlover]

In Starbucks, a couple came in with their baby (brand new - no more than a couple of weeks old). Dad goes to get coffees, Mum sits down opposite me and starts to make a bottle up. She got a bottle of water out, mixed formula powder in it then proceeded to feed it straight to baby. Obviously therefore the water had been boiled at home, but allowed to cool while they were out. I assumed she didn't realise the bacteria are in the formula, but believed the widely-held myth that it's the water that's dangerous. I nearly said something - I wasn't at all going to be rude, I was going to say something along the lines of "I hope you don't mind me saying, but you'd be better keeping a flask of water straight from the kettle with you, mixing the powder in a bit of that and then topping it up with cooled boiled water so baby can drink it" - but I held off and didn't say anything because I'm a wimp I thought it wasn't my business. But afterwards, I thought, if it had been me and I was doing something (however unwittingly) that might be putting my baby's health at risk, I would want another Mum to tell me so in as non-threatening a way as possible. So I wonder if I should have said something. What do you think?

(Disclaimer: this is in NO WAY intended to be an anti-FF thread - I just wanted to point out to her the safest possible way to formula-feed her baby, not in any way to judge, so please don't think that comes into it)

Porcamiseria

So you have never seen/known of a baby with any of these symptoms??

Enterobacter Sakazakii Symptoms

Symptoms that may occur in infants or children include:
?diarrhea
?bloating
?vomiting
?high fever
?the baby looks yellow
?decreased consciousness (lazy drink, do not cry)
?suddenly blue

Although very rare, infections because these bacteria can cause a very dangerous disease to be life-threatening, include neonatal meningitis (infection of the lining of the brain in infants), hydrocephalus (big head because of excess brain fluid), sepsis (severe infection), and necrotizing enterocolitis (severe damage to the gastrointestinal tract). While in some cases have been reported urinary tract infection.

In general, the case fatality rate (case-fatality rate) or can be life-threatening risk to range between 40-80 percent in newborns who received a diagnosis of severe infections due to this disease. Brain infection caused by E. sakazakii may lead to myocardial or brain abscess (brain damage) with the formation of cysts, severe neurological disorders and sequelae of developmental disorders.

People are still missing the point. It is not about the bacteria around the house. It is a very specific bacteria in the formula powder.

Anecdote does not equal data.

Yes, thousands of children will be fine - some will get a little unwell, others will get very ill and some will die.

It is not hard to make a bottle up with water at 70deg, to remove the risk of death - it doesn't seem like a big ask to me.

cother you are joking? That's awful!

valium I wish I was. But they were fucking weird anyway and I was still on my trial period. She also decided that because I dyed my hair back to my natural colour (mousey blondy brownish) from brown, I was trying to pretend that her son (who was white blonde) was mine when I went out. Best off out of that job me thinks.

Cother - yep - well out of that one I'd say!!

cother had a couple of hideous jobs similar - I feel your pain!

So hang on. I wash and sterilise the bottles. Then add cooled boiled water and formula. Then store them in the fridge.

When DD wants a bottle, I heat it up using hot water in a jug with the bottle in.

I did this with DS and he's alive. Am I wrong?!

I had twins so got through 2X tins a week doing it the old way,never,ever had tummy upsets with my 3 ever,even now.

I also know no babies hospitalised with tummy upsets,and over the years I've known a lot of ff babies.

Funny how other countries aren't getting hysterical over this.Common sense and perspective.When you consider the shit babies put in their mouths I just don't get the hysteria.

I don't get how making the bottles up with boiling water then putting in the fridge is a problem.The original burst of temp will kill everything especially in sterilised bottles(there will be nothing to grow).That was how I made up my dc's bottles and so did pretty much everybody else I know.As I said absolutely no tummy upsets.

I hate this intense scrutinising of ff(often carried out by many who have never even done it).A cynic would say many try to put mothers off ff.

it's a WHO recommendation and the only people i can see getting 'hysterical' are the people who don't want to comply with it.

WHO as in WORLD health organisation, just to be clear. as in... other countries.

What?! Sorry haven't time to read all the thread but I thought that was how formula was supposed to be made up. That's how everyone I know does it. That's how I did it and my youngest is only 2.

Plus . . .

"I hope you don't mind me saying, but you'd be better keeping a flask of water straight from the kettle with you, mixing the powder in a bit of that and then topping it up with cooled boiled water so baby can drink it"

. . . Doesn't that mean the formula would have more water in it then it's supposed to have if you top it up with cold? I was told a million times over to mix exactly the right mixture of powder to ounces of water.

I was told when mine were small not to make up the bottles in advance in the hot water (although I know that was the done thing a few years before) as it should be only made up just before a feed and so to do it like the woman you saw. I was told this by literally everyone.

Feel like I've been transported to another dimension!

the instructions are on the box, gluesticks. they were that way six years ago, when i was feeding dd1. maybe you should read the thread, it's all been covered.

Reading through this thread makes my head feel like it is going to pop!

I have had 3 dcs since 2006, the advice then and the instructions on the tin have not changed since then.

I managed to make up bottles on demand, at night and out and about by using the method of half near boiling and cooled boiled and cartons.

I can't believe how many times it has to be repeated that

1. The powder isn't sterile - the water has to >70 degrees

2. The bacteria that needs to be killed is NOT the same as the sort of dirt from toys etc

3. The risk is small, but the consequences huge, just because your strapping 8 year old never had any problems, doesn't mean that the risk isn't there - it only has to be one dodgy feed.

Hear hear hazeyjane.

gluesticks not if you measure the water out first ie two lots of water one HOT to mix the powder in and the other cold to add to the hot once the powder has mixed.

so a 6oz feed, have a bottle with precooled water in of 3oz, then in an empty bottle, put 3oz HOT water, add all 6 scoops of powder to that bottle and mix, then add the cooled boiled water so it would be 6oz of water altogether correct for a 6oz feed. that is how i did it when out, when at home i make it up with hot water, then put it in a bowl of cold water under a running tap and it cools down within a few mins.

Well considering the WHO guidance on bf for 6th months and current research/guidance re iron levels clearly it's actually OK to question WHO now and again.

They seem to be doing just that in Australia. Balanced non hysterical advice here.

www.infantnutritioncouncil.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/preparation-of-infant-formula-and-safety-around-70-degrees.pdf

I wasn't aware any baby had dies here just one in Belgium.

You shouldn't add cool boiled water to a feed, it would change the ratio of formula and water. My youngest is 11 months. I received book from the nhs that included how to make up bottles, weaning and all sorts of other things. I can't be the only one.

moomins, not if the correct amount of oz of water is used, eg 3oz hot water + 4oz cold water + 7 scoops of powder.

moomin you CAN add coiled boiled water if you measure out the water first, so one lot of HOT and one lot of cold, both 3oz, then add the powder to the hot water and mix, then add in the cooled water so 3oz of cooled added to the 3oz of hot would make up a 6oz feed, its FINE as long as you MEASURE out both lots of water before adding the powder.

Why would you bother, takes no time at all to just cool it all down. Do you have links saying it's ok to do it that way?

Agree 4 Mad,you could take 2 X bottles out,the one with powder and previously hot water then add the other measured amount of water in at a later time-simple!!!! Problem solved.

i dont do it at home, i just make it and put it under a running tap but when OUT and about i take one bottle with say 3oz of cooled boiled water and then either a flask of boiling water (or ask for it in a cafe) and put 3oz of the hot water in another empty bottle, add all the powder, mix and then add in the cooled water and voila a bottle at drinking temp for baby no waiting involved!

why would it NOT be ok to do it that way? you are measuring the water so yo uhave the right amount of water, the pwder is mixing with the HOT water so killing the bugs and then you add the rest of the water to cool it down and to make it the right ratio of powder to water.

I don't know moomins, it seemed to take an age to cool it down from near boiling to drinkable by holding under the cold tap, especially when they are newborn and it is middle of the night.

Didn't tabouleh (who did lots of research into this sort of stuff) put links up to research that said that making with hot water, cooling rapidly and sticking in back of fridge was the next best thing to making each feed and drinking straight away.