Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think this is the most annoyingly pretentious article I have read in a long time?

218 replies

sphil · 18/02/2012 21:33

www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/feb/17/rachel-cusk-divorce-the-aftermath

I felt as if I was drowning in a sea of verbiage by the time I'd finished it.

OP posts:
marfisa · 19/02/2012 00:34

Oh dear, I'm incapable of formatting properly tonight.

www.guardian.co.uk/books/2005/sep/03/featuresreviews.guardianreview23?INTCMP=SRCH

ISpyPlumPie · 19/02/2012 00:40

YANBU. Ploughed through it earlier - and to think this is merely an edited extract?!

Noellefielding · 19/02/2012 00:44

I would like to play devil's advocate on this thread. Brew.

I have really struggled with Rachel Cusk in the past and I couldn't get through the mothering book but actually, I still think that was probably a very brave book to write - I do think that hating motherhood is not a view that our culture easily hears. A writer is perfectly justified in saying "becoming a mother destroyed my identity", we only have to look at post natal depression and suicide rates among new mothers to have that be a valid position to write about.

If this thread were about her Italian book, 'The Last Supper, a summer in Italy' - A memoir about taking her family abroad for several months and the people they met in Italy, then I would not want to jump to her defence so much; I just couldn't believe that she skewered these people, however deserving of skewering, with their consent when they seemed potentially hugely identifiable. Actually I think I read that the paperback had to be edited owing to threats of legal action. Don't know if that's true.

Surely it's hard to be female writer and to be extremely honest. I just hate seeing women attacking other women on mumsnet. I've done it myself and I slightly hate myself for it, I sometimes stop myself and think, could I be sisterly here? She may be solipsistic and narcissistic even (not many writers aren't...) but the end of a marriage is a hideous thing and I don't wish suffering upon her because I don't like her writing very much. She sounds in pain, and she is putting her pain out there and even though I cringe as well, I still think it's a brave piece to write.
just my opinion!

Clary · 19/02/2012 00:51

Oh gooodness I knew it would be this.

I started to read it but I just had to give up! I'd rather read an academic textbook tbh (and in fact I did afterwards!).

I have read some of her novels and found them OK but that book about becomign a mother - aaarrrgh. She called her daughter Albertina which backs up the view expressed in the book that she was less than keen on her Hmm.

Cannot believe the Guardian article which btw was the cover story was an extract from a book! Who would want to read more?

LOL @ narcoplesy leBOF Grin

Clary · 19/02/2012 00:56

But Noelle, articles written for the public, even in The Guardian, should serve a primary purpose - someone (lots of people, really) needs to want to read them.

This piece seems to fail at that major hurdle. Cannot cannot believe they made it the cover story. If she wants to write out what she feels, she should use a diary. That's what I do, but I don't expcet payment, or anyone to want to read it!

Noellefielding · 19/02/2012 01:07

Clary, I do agree, she clearly irritates a lot of readers but I think I have to stand up for her right to write what she feels in the way that she does. Artists have to be free to do so.
My father absolutely detests Tracey Emin. I genuinely think she's a genius. She uses her art to express herself authentically. I know it's not everyone's cup of tea, but, imo, it is her right to do so. And Cusk's right too.

I think the Guardian are clever to put it on the cover, it will get a lot of response, people will hate her, I suspect.
That makes me want to defend her! Like I do Tracey Emin to my father. The bottom line is, we can't dictate what the artist does. It's not about the reader it's about the voice. If you're cross with the Guardian than fine. But she does have the right to write about her experience.

Noellefielding · 19/02/2012 01:09

this interview shows her reasoning and her unhappy family situation it makes more sense now I've read this.

marfisa · 19/02/2012 01:17

Noelle, I don't fault her for being honest about the dark side of motherhood. What I find much more troubling is her readiness to "skewer" other people in print, as you put it, whether members of her local book club, or people she met in Italy, or her ex-husband. In print, for money.

I also quite simply disagree with many of the statements she makes in that article: "The feminist scorns that silly complicit creature the housewife". Really? Because I'm a feminist, and I don't. I don't scorn anyone, male or female, who decides to give up their career or put it on hold to look after their children.

So you have a point about not indulging in personal attacks, but when someone publishes a piece like that, it's fair enough to disagree with it. And find it poorly written, even.

Noellefielding · 19/02/2012 01:29

marfisa, I can't argue with that.
I just feel she's in pain, and she's writing about it and lots of male writers skewer people in print and it is more generally accepted.
She got a lot of praise as a young writer, clearly sees herself as a writer and teaches writing. I haven't read her early stuff.

I just want to defend her despite not being a fan. I feel protective, whether I like it or not, she is exposing herself too in these pieces.

mathanxiety · 19/02/2012 02:16

I am also divorced from a lawyer, and I could identify with much of what she said about many things. There is something very specifically nasty about an exH who is a lawyer imo. 'I remember how towards the end it felt like a dam giving way by degrees, the loss of courtesy and caution, the breakdown of civility and self-control...' I remember this well, living under the same roof, and he would pass me without breaking stride or looking at me in the dining room, the sitting room, the hall. In the end I did the same to him.

I was the sahp in my marriage, and I think the law is a cruel joke, the kind only an angry and hate filled lawyer could dream up, when it comes smack up against the fact that women make sacrifices to raise families, and yet are expected to jump right back in and get on with making a living when divorce happens. Women lose by being sahps and they lose by being wohps - no matter what they choose they lose. The prestige, no matter what they choose to do, and the financial rewards no matter what they do, are usually men's. I really applaud her decision to write in this way about her exH. Serves him right; bear in mind that he will by all accounts receive part of whatever she earned from writing this piece. Ironic is not the word.

I got really, really good at all sorts of home repair and maintenance, and I would have got a dog instead of Rupert.

I thought the illustration and the photos were pathetic. The prose is a bit purple in patches, and there is too much wallowing, too much lingering appreciation of the exquisite ruins, but a good deal of it rang true.

I regard phrases like 'The feminist scorns that silly complicit creature the housewife' as a confession of hers about what she felt about 'housewives'. 'The feminist' should be read in the context of her ex's taunt ('Call yourself a feminist'). Not an indictment of feminism or of feminists therefore, but a writer's trick of the trade, a rhetorical device.

She discussed her take on feminism earlier:

'She knows that her womanhood is a fraud, manufactured by others for their own convenience; she knows that women are not born but made. So she stays away from it, like the alcoholic stays away from the bottle. So I suppose a feminist wouldn't get married. She wouldn't have a joint bank account or a house in joint names. She might not have children either, girl children whose surname is not their mother's but their father's, so that when she travels abroad with them they have to swear to the man at passport control that she is their mother.
My father advanced male values to us, his daughters. And my mother did the same. What I lived as feminism were in fact the cross-dressing values of my father. So I am not a feminist. I am a self-hating transvestite.'
This imo is a comment well made on the contradictions of life for a feminist, the long way still to go to make an egalitarian world, the basic realities of women's lives coming up against the ideals of feminism on the battleground of divorce when the couple have had children together.

mashpot · 19/02/2012 02:48

Also got half way and gave up while reading the mag. Sort of skim read the end, who were X, W and Z? Actually I don't even care but seemed confusing!

Mimishimi · 19/02/2012 06:59

She does waffle on a fair bit doesn't she? She doesn't exactly make clear who ended the relationship and the latter third of it seems a bit like she's trying to show her ex that men are still interested in her (although X lost interest and Y sounds like her psychiatrist) Bits of it are okay but she's certainly a navel-gazer. Her ex possibly gave up his job because she refused to compromise and he didn't want them in care full time.

"Why couldn't we be the same? Why couldn't he be compartmentalised, too? And why, exactly, was it helpful for a man to look after his own children, or cook the food that he himself would eat? Help is dangerous because it exists outside the human economy: the only payment for help is gratitude."

And she wasn't grateful, she felt he was upstaging her. It's all about her and her needs. Basically it sounds like she wanted to live her feminist ideal but still wanted him to 'bring home the bacon' so to speak. So she ends her relationship and is then surprised when he feels hard done by and that he is bitter about her and the kids are upset. SAHM's hardly receive prestige for looking after their children, rather the opposite actually until the kids turn out well. The fact he has a law degree doesn't mean anything, one quarter of those with one don't work in law and contrary to public opinion, it's not necessarily a highly-paid or glamourous profession for most.

SunflowersSmile · 19/02/2012 08:04

I tried to read it all but arghhh..
It started off ok but then dissolved into long winded analogy that got wearing very quickly. Do writers get paid by the word? Be succinct woman for goodness sake.

elinorbellowed · 19/02/2012 08:10

I was completely baffled as to why the front cover said it was 'long awaited'. By whom? Utterly self-indulgent poorly written twaddle. I hate all that confessional Prozac Nation, Tracy Emin, look how I suffer misery memoir stuff.
I only had sympathy for the children.

belgo · 19/02/2012 08:13

Another one who guessed the article by the thread title!

I did manage to read 'til the end , but totally flummoxed by X, Y and Z!

Dozer · 19/02/2012 08:16

One of the reasons have stopped buying weekend papers is all the v annoying, self-indulgent articles by the usual journalists (male and female, probably more male). Surely out there there are lots of aspiring journalists who write about similar topics in a more accessible and interesting way? Why don't papers publish stuff by a wider range of people, not just indulge the few, same people?

Dozer · 19/02/2012 08:16

Or different topics in fact.

alistron1 · 19/02/2012 08:33

I thought that it was an incredibly tedious piece. There was a kernel of a very interesting discussion in there but it got lost in the waffle.

AfternoonDelight · 19/02/2012 08:39

I just didn't get it at all.

Yes, she's split up with her husband, yes it's sad... maybe I'm not educated enough to understand all the long words or metaphors she's got going on.

I'm a bit Confused that she was surprised about her husband'a attitude to her - especially after the "children belong to me" comment. If he's been a SAHD, what did she expect he would do?

sphil · 19/02/2012 08:48

I'm glad someone disgreed with the general run of posts - I was hoping for an alternative view. I absolutely agree that writers should have freedom to write what they like. Maybe RC is completely aware that what she writes is likely to raise hackles and relishes the prospect of debate. But a writer also creates a persona that comes through the writing, and this means that despite the various situations she writes about, for which I would usually have enormous sympathy ( or in the case of the book about motherhood, empathy, as I had a hard, hard time after DS2 was born), I feel alienation rather than sisterhood because I find that persona so hard to like. I agree with Marfisa - it's the skewering of other people I can't stand. And while it might be understandable in the raw aftermath of a divorce, it isn't when you're writing about the entirely innocent members of a book club!

I think I would feel the same if it was a male writer doing the skewering.

OP posts:
SydneySinger · 19/02/2012 08:52

I cringed my way through most of that article while waiting on her to redeem herself at some point. Self-indulgent tripe.

changeforthebetter · 19/02/2012 08:52

She is so far up her own pretentious arse it is incredible.

I read her book about becoming a mother and ended up throwing it across the room. "Oh I am so clever and use such complex language. I'm not one of those dreary mummy drones". Quite how she managed to string those sentences and concepts together when she was supposedly knocked sideways by exhaustion, is beyond me. From what I recall of the wretched tome she had quite a bit of help from others too.

I skim read yesterday's article. I am not surprised someone loathes her. I think she would be a fairly intolerable individual.

We ought to have some common ground as I found motherhood an incredible shock and am now divorced also. Um, except, I am too busy bringing up my kids (whose contact with their father I actively encourage) and earning a living. I don't have time for navel-gazing and intellectual posturing.

Why do I buy weekend papers when they are full of self-indulgent twaddle like this?

Bonsoir · 19/02/2012 08:55

"I was the sahp in my marriage, and I think the law is a cruel joke, the kind only an angry and hate filled lawyer could dream up, when it comes smack up against the fact that women make sacrifices to raise families, and yet are expected to jump right back in and get on with making a living when divorce happens. Women lose by being sahps and they lose by being wohps - no matter what they choose they lose."

You are absolutely right, mathanxiety.

GavisconJunkie · 19/02/2012 09:01

Oh my god! I did an English lit degree & as a result have read (& written :0( ) some tedious, banal, navel gazing shite,'but this, THIS takes the Biscuit

I'd never heard of her before, but I'll be sure to avoid her in the future.

bringmesunshine2009 · 19/02/2012 09:16

Zoned out at x and y. Made me feel nervy. Like would I have to support DH in case of split. He is not SAHD by choice, in fact if he had the choice his ideal job would be 'man o luxury' but he helps out with children 8 hours a week whilst I work, the rest of the time I have to pay for a nursery and a babysitter, because he "doesn't have the patience to deal with them" as he "is not a woman" and he goes off with his friends under the guise of finding work.

So if he got to stay with the children and get money from me all because he couldn't be arsed to work, it would kick me twice.