to think a lot of people just don't get the cost of housing?

[stressedofnorthlondon]

DH and I are looking for a house and it's got me thinking. I live in a cheap part of the city, but that's cheap relative to other parts of London and the south east. We've looked a quite a few places now, but with each one I see I just can't quite believe how much a fairly small family house is going to cost us. But, we have completely grown out of our current home so we need to move.

We need to stay in London for lots of reasons. Our jobs are here. I could probably get work elsewhere (or maybe not in the current climate?) but DH couldn't. His profession is London-based. So if we moved away he'd have to commute back in anyway. Our support network is here. Our familes are not but they live in equally expensive areas that are not to far away, close enough to help. All our friends and all that we know, that keeps us sane, are here.

So often on here you see people say "downsize" "move somewhere cheaper" etc etc. The whole HB furore going on at the moment is due to the expectation that people should be moving to cheaper accomodation / cheaper areas. But there is nowhere within commuting distance of London that is cheap! I think it's because people who live in other parts of the country just don't understand that here there isn't really such a thing as "affordable" housing. There isn't anywhere to downsize to, as even small properties, to rent and to buy, are really really expensive. Yes lots of people get paid much higher salaries to work in the capital, but we also have lots of people on minimum wage, lots of people in the service industries, people who clean etc. To rent a family house here is well over £1000 pcm.

So AIBU to think that a lot of people who live elsewhere in the country just don;t understand that housing here is expensive, whatever size of property, or what area you live in.

(and I know that DH and I could stay in our small flat, but we are lucky that we can afford to move, I just can't believe how much it'll cost us!)

So, MarriedinWhite - I know you love London and all that. But has it ever occurred to you to sell your £3m house, buy a not-grand-but-really-quite-nice terrace in gorgeous York for £400k, stick the balance in the bank and live off the £60k interest (post-tax) that you'd get each year?

Just asking

I think most people are aware, if we weren't aware then we would all be there taking advantage of your museums, patisseries and public transport, instead of sitting here in our nice big houses doing fuck all because the bus only comes twice a day and even if you get on it it doesn't go anywhere you would want to be.

Cambridge is equally expensive as London but we don't get the London weighting or any other kind of perks. We are buying our house but to rent is ridiculous here - as in London, a three bed house in any area really is between £900 and £1000. Mental

So this is still raging on then? I'll defend myself and say I don't want people to think "poor me" as for us it is a choice to stay here, and we can afford it, my personal annoyance is that we can only buy a teeny place for rather a lot of money. I'm lucky, but many here aren't and London needs people who earn NMW too. Tiny houses and flats are expensive to rent or buy anywhere here, even in the cheap not so popular areas, but everyone needs a home. And if you're earning a tiny salary then paying for an expensive season ticket to travel into London isn't really ideal

Molly you made me laugh when you said you bet the family home we're looking for will be quite big, more than most people can afford, er, definitely no! At the moment I have 2dc in a2 bed flat, the second bedroom is just big enough for 1 dc, (not old enough for bunks and no room for a secod cot / bed)) so DS2 will stay in with us (he's too young to move at the mo but when he is will stay), but I can't actually get into my wardrobe at the moment as the cot fills up the room. So we just want a leeetle bit more space. The house we'll end up buying will likely be smaller than the lancs terrace I grew up in and will be significantly smaller than the properties that my friends outside of London live in. A lounge just big enough to fit a sofa in? Check.
Coral we are looking in one of the areas you said. As I said, this is a cheap area (on the league tables in the evening standard, the second cheapest in the capital I think). Definitely not Highgate or Islington!

Actually Bertha that's exactly what DH wants to do and we already have the rather nice little terrace within York's City walls - and might one day live in it at least for half the year when the dc have left home and we have a smaller terrace here for the other half of the year. Another 10 years when DH has retired and there's a nice high church archbishop installed at York so we feel comfortable going to the Minster

Coral toes, Don't need 100k deposit, that the the max value of a mortgage I could hope to get, I think 20% is a typical deposit nowadays and that is 20k.

A 300k house in Enfield is a dream, but could never afford that, is 3 times what I could think of. So I need to find a property for 100k within commuting range of London, I would hope by moving out of London we could get a 3 bed, I can't move my job so need to commute. I would happily live in Wood Green!

I hail from the SW and would go there, though DH wouldn't. And I'd have to change my specialism at work. Which is depressing but maybe necessary.

So please, if you can find me somewhere realistic, show me :)

Also, you know I read your post and thought 'you both work in the place you live in, have done so for a while so have been able to develop a strong network of friends and have family close by, lucky you!'

My profession is the opposite of London-based, in that it's dispersed with no 'centre' and small so thinly spread. Therefore to develop any sort of career I've had to move around the country, was on short-term contracts for years so no hope of buying a house or etablishing a settled social network in one place until almost thirty. I know I was lucky, timing-wise, to buy a house then and to find the next job close by, so that by mid-thirties I felt settled enough to start a family. DP has to drive all over the country for his job and finding another job could well mean being based in another town during the week, just as we're expecting our first child. My own family live in another country and, never having had any expectation of their day to day involvement in my life I'm happy that I see them quite frequently, considering.

My point is, you have a lot of advantages, which many people don't have. Lots of people commute weekly or have lengthy daily commutes. You're almost classing your advantages as a burden because in order to sustain them you need an expensive house. We all have to make choices and compromises but, I hope you find somewhere.

I do think invoking the plight of HB recipients when that is clearly not your situation comes across as a little self-pitying. Yes, that's a real and pressing issue but it's not your situation - and you wouldn't benefit from any social-housing or HB-based solution either.

OP, let's hook up, pool our funds buy a garage space in Crouch End and covert it to 6 bed palace I guess my DCs are about the same age as yours, I may even know you!

stressed - there are ways round in none of us 4 own a wardrobe and havent since december 2006. You have to get rid of most things we have our clothes in one of those storage drawers from wilkos. I am lucky as I said because I have another bedroom but you have to be even more ruthless if you are my frends who have the 2 kids, dp and them in 1 bed.

For when the baby is born dh and dd are in bunk beds and I am in bed with baby so we fit.

I am in your position and count myself very lucky I am not like a lot of otherpeople who have to have families of 4 in a 1 bed.

I said I would need a £100k deposit, maybe 90k would do. 3 bed where I live would be about £400k, 20% deposit + fees and stamp duty. Our income is £40k so could never get a mortgage for anything like enough. Where we live is 20mins to the tube by bus and not in any way posh either. Not complaining, just explaining!

How old are those of you with a family of four in a one bed flat? Did you think about working - two jobs each working - to save up before the dc came along? Just asking - no offence meant.

We work both of us now? and have always worked. My best friend in 1 bed flat is a manager and does 40 hours a week and her dp also does 40 hours. Its just expensive. I have worked since I was 14 an done forces, childcare, also done waitressing, bar, flyering and sex chat lines as 2nd jobs.

I have a job to as does DH I only took 10 days maternity leave last time. Its what it is like for a lot of people as how can you move? Nothing is selling and its just the way it is. Everyone is in the same position at the moment.

Me and my two friends are very, very lucky properties are 13 x average wage here s o you got to do what you got to do for the long run

Molly I think your circumstances are a very good illustration of what I said about there not being cheapy cheap areas of London as there are in other places. Unless you had a big deposit or got a fab interest rate, I'm sure it can't be easy paying your mortgage on minimum wage. You must be a good budgeter!

To be fair there are actually a few new build flats that are, even now, highly ambitiously priced at over 100k in rough areas of Manchester. But they're clearly not the most affordable option in the city, whereas yours possibly is. The flipside I suppose is that you have local access to more jobs than you would do if you were in, say, a 100k 4 bed house in the north east. Btw, can I ask when you got your flat and what do you think it would be worth now?

'The flipside I suppose is that you have local access to more jobs than you would do if you were in, say, a 100k 4 bed house in the north east.'

Good god no me and DH would be on a much better wage in North East. Its where DH is from and he saw jobs exactly as what he does now for 20k ayear whereas here you get 6.75 an hour. Here you do the same job for much, much less pay but house prices and about 1000 times higher!

op just realised from reading another thread I think we both live in the same (grimy) part of zone 3. Ah well, it's home - have come to love it!

Blimey. Well, I hope you love living in London enough to compensate!

Good god no me and DH would be on a much better wage in North East. Its where DH is from and he saw jobs exactly as what he does now for 20k ayear whereas here you get 6.75 an hour. Here you do the same job for much, much less pay but house prices and about 1000 times higher!

Which begs the question....

Flangelina - It is worth a similar price to what I paid luckily as I got it cheap as the man was desperate to sell and it was in 2006 and I moved from our other flat and had a decentish deposit. Both my friends are in negative equity I think. We are lucky as we could move if we could sell but thats only because we bought when we were 18, however no chance of anything selling for many years.

I think some people dont realise what it is like living in some areas of south west. A new build for 100k in manchester forf lat.

Here on one of the top 5% of most deprived areas in country for lack of jobs, pay, lack of central heating, workless households etc a new build house would set you back 225k! and a 2 bed flat 150k!

whatmeworry - even after all that though we would never move and dh wouldnt either cause even though you have all that you have better weather, better lifestyle, low crime, laid back lifestyle, beautiful area, loads of free stuff to do beaches, moors, country as well as town.

So that is why we pay more same as people pay more in London. You pay for the location and that is why its never going to be as cheap as the north. Thats why there is no good complaining about it, I am just pointing out south east isnt the only one with these issues

"How old are those of you with a family of four in a one bed flat? Did you think about working - two jobs each working - to save up before the dc came along? Just asking - no offence meant."

Ok, I'll take this one- although I have a 2 bed HA, some of my colleagues who are full time SWs (I can think of three off hand) live in 1 bed flats with their partner and two children. Partners work. All in Mid thirties. This is not unsual, and is in fact increasingly common. Outskirts of London.

I'll suggest to them that they get a paper round.

Molly I think got confused. I thought you were in south west London, not the south west of England. Which is why I thought you had access to more jobs. Obviously you don't there, and in fact its probably harder than a lot of northern and midlands cities.

The south west in some ways is worse affected by property prices. At least in areas like the north east and parts of Wales, you enjoy cheaper housing to go along with your poorer job prospects. The south west is really the only area of the country that bucks the connection between job prospects and housing costs. And I think its the hardest region to 'fix' too.

Those new builds in Manchester are silly prices and won't go at those rates- one of the reasons why most of them are shared ownership. There are some on the estate I'm from (and considering buying) which are 100k at full price, in an area where you can get a 3 bed with big front and back garden and have change to do it up for that price! Ex council of course, but more spacious and solid than some of the new builds. The area has a terrible reputation, but you'll have the postcode whether you live in new build or council.

Housing is a lot here too.(Yorkshire).
The HB allowance is capped at 500 pm. The cheapest ex council 2 bed house is 550 pm.

No7 is considered an extravagance in my house!!

I think, as someone else has said on here, it depends on what your view of commute-able is. We live around 90 minutes away from London by train. My DH's work is home-based but he works in London a lot and finds it fine for commuting. Lots of people in our town commute on a daily basis. Houses aren't dirt-cheap where we are, but they are a lot more affordable than London prices; we have a big detached 4 bedroom house which we paid £200k for 5 years ago. A 3 bedroom house can be rented for around £700 per month, sometimes less.

And I too am laughing at No 7 being a brand of make up to use if you're scrimping and saving!

I think we are lucky here as even though it is seen as very deprived it is mainly due to jobs, workless households, no central heating etc as opposed to crime and it is very safe.

However not many people have money on my estate or some of the others most are on minimum wage or thereabouts, its not as simple as saying work harder, do more jobs as everything is low waged. I have done admin jobs here through the agency for social services, worked at a bank and other public sector roles still only got paid minimum wage. I lived in newcastle for a summer and the same type of roles were offered at a much better rate of pay.

Its hard to get a job with security and the lack of transport links make it difficult for businesses to take off here. There are people with plenty of money here but most have come from London or bought years ago when everything was cheap. I really dont see it ever changing and at times it is frustrating, but its supply and demand I suppose, and there are lots of BTL and second home owners here. You can make a killing if you are in London or other affluent areas come down here buy loads and rent them to people on hb, as there is massive amount of people on hb.