To wonder how many Sociopaths you have come across?

[Impsandelves]

Just read The Sociopath Next Door by Martha Stout after hearing it mentioned in another thread.

I feel as though I could list possibly 2 family members, a couple of friends past and present, as sociopaths to some degree.

Am I being unreasonably paranoid?! Or do you feel you have come across a few too?

I have worked in sales (City), Eurobonds. Despite the reputation I don't think I ever met anyone who met the definition. I don't think I have met anyone like that either although I think DS has a friend who has traits of it and it's terribly sad for the family.

TheParan0idAndr0id Children with DS2's diagnosis are often develop Conduct Disorder as teens and then are diagnosed with Antisocial Personality Disorder (sociopath) or Borderline Personal as adults. Unfortunately, I am seeing it happen before my eyes. Sad, but true. :(

ByTheSea, I'd say you are more qualified to speak to that than anyone else on this thread, you (unfortunately) have the knowledge and experience to know what you are talking about.
My point is that it doesn't help people with real problems, like your son, to be lumped into a category with all of these other people that have had labels stuck to them by amateurs who don't understand them. It trivialises an actual diagnosis, it normalises fairly rare problems, its doesn't help you at all.

So "sociopath" is going to become the new MN mental health trend? Oh well, I was getting a bit bored of "toxic" and "narc".

I agree with TheParan0idAndr0id. ByTheSea is in a dreadful situation with her DS for which she (and presumably the professionals who have diagnosed the condition) can't see any kind of cure for. It's absolutely awful and I feel desperately sorry for her and her DS (that came out slightly patronising, and I don't want it to be, please don't be offended Bythesea I just don't know how else to phrase it).

The problem with mis-diagnosis is that if everyone who is a really nasty bastard is "diagnosed" as a "psychopath", it makes life much harder for people who actually have to live with the diagnosis of ASPD in a relative. That's not to say that the situations or people described above aren't terrible, they sound breathtakingly awful as well. But if you start to lump every single nasty bastard under the label "pyschopath" or the mumsnet special of "NPD" (to try and move the conversation away from specifics) then it is harder for people to get proper support as a layperson doesn't understand the condition and has a whole load of assumptions and misapprehensions.

Thanks everyone. DS2 can look scarily normal and very charming to other people. He can also be quite dead-eyed as others have described. That said, I think there are people out there with personality disorders like this and it wouldn't surprise me if many of the people described in this thread actually did have them. Most people on the thread are saying they've only in their lifetimes encountered one or two people who met the criteria -- they may well be right that they have indeed encountered people with these disorders.

1, and didn't realise but suspected I knew one before reading the info from Letch
My step-father.. have avoided for 13 months now, life is good :)

So, do sociopaths attract and often marry people the same as themselves then?

My 90 year old grandmother. She has alzheimers now and has been in a nursing home for 5 years. We try not to visit.

perceptionreality I doubt it very much. They need to be in charge, not in a bossy way but they are top of the pack. In the one experience I've had (BIL) he always seems to find vunerable women. They can be pretty or not, intelligent or not. As long as they will fall for the charm and accept the lies without question.

Echoing some other posters' sentiments and also putting the 'sociopath' label into some kind of context, I've also just read The Psychopath Test by Jon Ronson. Someone mentioned it up thread, it's well worth a read for anyone interested in mental health and it's diagnosis, on a more candid level.

I've met many who I would have flippantly said they were, but only one who ticks all the boxes, maybe two if I am totally honest with my memory!

I've met a LOT of selfish twats though, but they're not even in the same ball park.

GerardWay - I see. I would imagine it's quite rare - someone completely without a conscience. I can think of many people who have serious issues or are unpleasant but nobody who fits the criteria of, basically, a monster.

I know a man who worries that he is a psychopath but I said to him if he was he wouldn't be worried about it.

I wonder how much self awareness these people actually have?

Just 3 I think.

I'm using Dr Robert Hare's definitions as they are the best I've found.

Primary Sociopaths
Sadly one is a Primary Head Teacher. The damage she causes is incredible but she slithers on through life. Truly frightening considering how she is able manipulate other agencies to avoid detection and the power she's aquired in a "caring" profession. The most dangerous individual I've ever come across, and very, very clever.

The other was also a woman and a partner to a friend for a while. Watched havoc unravel from a distance and banned her from ANY direct contact with my own life. It was a smart move to keep a very wide berth and draw no attention to myself. Noone suspects a pensioner.

One secondary sociopath
These people can respond to treatment thank god as the causes are usually environmental.

The big issue is - these people can ACT perfect empathy and coldy assess it in others in order to exploit them for their own ends. It makes them VERY dangerous as only the stupid ones go to prison or ever get "caught" & they are naturally attracted to professional positions that give them power over others.

Met a lot of "egos" in the corporate and financial worlds but no true sociopaths.

Surely its experiences children have when they're really young that make them sociopaths though? I don't believe anyone is born evil.

Its thought to be more about brain structure and chemistry, but we don't really know.

Its not about being evil though, its about being damaged or disabled, just in a socially unacceptable way.

Ah yes, I've just read about it - they don't have the same physiological responses to emotions. But many people would describe the actions of a sociopath as 'evil' because that is how they understand it, when, as you say - it's more appropriate to view it as a disability.

Don't think I know any adults like this, although I have met some really unpleasant people.

I do know a child, well, a 15 year old girl, who fits this description. I don't want to go into too much detail about her, but she went through primary school with my daughter, and made her life a misery. We moved my daughter to a different school because of this girl, and I know there are other parents who did the same. She is extremely charming, the teachers (most of them) seemed to love her, but she was extremely manipulative. I have been told by another parent that she is concentrating on another child at the moment.

I used to watch her in the playground after school. She would make a huge fuss of young toddlers, and then physically hurt them when she thought no one could see, then comfort them and be very sweet. She came to our house twice, (the teachers had told us to encourage her and DD to be friends) and both times I caught her physically hurting my younger DD. I just wonder that if a child can be so cruel at primary school age, what will she be like when older?

Primrose, that's utterly chilling. I wonder if the girl's parents are aware of what she's truly like?

They do exist in many guises, and seem to latch on to the victims' neediness and weak spots in an instant.

A friend of mine is a highly experienced and shrewd mental health nurse, but, like all of us, has her buttons that can be pressed.

Her ex-husband and ex (ish) boyfriend both pulled a string of stunts on her that were fantastically manipulative and damaging, and I was shocked to see how she defended them and at times excused the situation.

With her ex-bf, my partner and I went to their house for a meal, my friend H is a wonderful host and cook, the bf just sulked, resented having to turn his prog-rock music down to allow conversation to take place. He had cooked one part of the meal, supposedly a Thai dish with peanuts, it was awful, like slurry and tasteless, H simpered and praised it. The whole evening was awful, it was terrible to see a vibrant intelligent woman ''allowing'' herself to be treated in this way.

Whilst not as dramatic as many examples (and others that H went through with her ex husband) it highlighted the way the boyfriend used his manipulation to entrap her...we talked over dinner about other places H could visit, even down to other amenity tips, and BF uttered the dread words....''Why do you want to leave Bognor, everything you would ever want is in Bognor..with me''

Days later she visited us and asked what we thought of the evening, so I told her she reminded me of a battered woman defending her abuser.That started a chain of events which ended with six friends helping her move out whilst BF was...er.. otherwise detained in the spare bedroom by two rugby playing chums.

Rage and stalking ensued for months, and eventually she started seeing him again..''he's not that bad...he means well..'' and his isolating behaviour started again.Luckily H's daughters intervened and said them or him, and so far she has steered clear.

These people can be immensely powerful and seductive, and we very often don't want to admit to being taken in.

Cinnabar, I don't know, she was always picked up from school by a childminder, so although I have met the parents a few times, I hardly know them.