To be really shocked by the Panorama show Poor America

[MrsHeffley]

I just can't believe that Americans don't care how their poor get literally no healthcare or help at all ie no job no food,home,benefits or healthcare what so ever.

I love America and we have American family but dp and I were appalled and totally shocked.

All those families living in drains and tent cities,schools sending kids home with food and worst of all zero healthcare and all those hundreds of desperate people queuing up in cars on the off chance of free medical care,the girl whose mum ate rats.....

The complete utter lack of hope.I just don't get how such a rich country can justify in all these years not voting in free healthcare for the poor at the very least.

And the people who think they've got good health insurance will still be screwed if they develop anything serious, like a brain tumour - a US surgeon told me 'if you get a brain tumour, you can pretty much expect to be bankrupted'. If you get cancer, your insurance company will tell you which drugs your policy will pay for and which it won't - never mind which are actually most suitable for your needs. Insurance companies drop expensive patients. Unless you are seriously wealthy in the first place, a serious or chronic condition makes you really, really poor over there.

The best healthcare system in the US seems to be the scheme for veterans - which is basically a mini-NHS, but restricted to servicemen and women.

Watching this programme I was so proud that we have our NHS. I work in the NHS and see everyday how wonderful it is not to discriminate against people on their ability to pay.

I just hope that we cherish it as much as we should and not abuse it - and all those people who go to the GP with a cold or end up in A&E drunk at the weekend were watching.

edam but many Americans use the healthcare for vets, as a reason to be scared of socialized medicine

You are right about 'serious' cancer wiping you out, its true.

My FIL died from bowel cancer, he had a separate cancer insurance...those back ups are very difficult to get now though.

Northernwreck - you make such a good point about the cost of housing nowadays.

When I was 2 (1978) we lived in a flat in central Edinburgh that cost my parents £32K (my mum tells me that was expensive at the time) . My dad worked as civil servant and earned £8K and my mum was SAHM. So flat to income about 4x.

Last year the identical flat next door was selling for offer over £340K. The average UK salary is around £34K (I think) so flat to income about 10x.

Nuff said.

I was shocked at the poverty but even more appalled at the attitude of the politicians! Religious standards are trumpeted by most of them but how those seen on this programme dare to call themselves Christians is beyond me.

This sort of documentary should be compulsory viewing to warn people here what Cameron and crew are pushing us towards.

I participate on an American message board, I asked if they would be happy to have socialized medicine in the US.

Most of them were horrified, going so far as to say "they didn't think everyone in life should be entitled to the same things" this was in the context of healthcare!

Unfortunately many Americans do believe that healthcare is not an automatic right.

Feminine - it's such a bizarre view of the world it's hard to get European heads round it, especially if you are British, I think. The Veterans scheme certainly appears to do extremely well on any measure you choose to use - patient satisfaction, health outcomes, costs... do Americans just object on principle to healthcare that isn't hideously expensive and crap, even for people who have served in the military?

I just can't get my head around that attitude.

What is it that I just can't see?
I too have rightwing relatives - signed up Tea Partiers, in fact - we've had some, em, discussions. They've never managed to articulate why their POVB makes sense.
I'm not one to sneer at the inarticulate, because I too find it difficult to get my point across. But at least I do hve a point. it exists.

Most of the Americans I speak with are terrified of losing their power/choice.

At the same time, they totally forget that most of the time their insurance companies are 'choosing' where they receive their treatment...

The insurance companies have a lot to answer for also.

Back in the days before insurance, things were a lot more affordable, and although not a system I'd like, it worked quite well.

My DH was born in '59 , so he remembers a more simple time, you saw your Doctor you paid for the services. This was affordable for most ordinary families.

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jan/27/bash-poor-wave-flag-tory-trick?INTCMP=SRCH

really interesting piece in the guardian about how the poor-bashing thing is at the heart of this con-dem govt.

so it's absolutely something that we are adopting from the states.

also from the graun it would appear that the NHS has increased productivity actually, but that's not what lansley's saying. the absolute fucker.

Feminine - yeah, I think many Americans don't realise how badly they are being screwed by insurance companies and a system which makes loads of money for all the corporates (including drug companies) but gives very poor value and very poor healthcare to actual patients. The incentive is to over-treat and over-diagnose anyone who has insurance, to repeat tests, to do stuff you can charge for, not what might actually be best for the patient. Bad care can be more profitable - if you do chronic disease management really well, there can be less stuff you can charge for.

Apparently this is one reason why the standard diagnostic manuals for psychiatry over-medicalise perfectly normal stuff and invent new definitions that cover ordinary behaviour that is within the normal range. Because if it ain't got a label, you can't treat it or charge for it.

Has anyone noticed the TV ads from Unum Provident. This is an American insurance company who wants people over here to take out illness insurance.
We ARE sleepwalking into this.

Agreed aitch. Every honest economist knows that standard measures of productivity are pretty feeble when it comes to healthcare - it isn't about making widgets and it's hard to measure good quality healthcare. You end up looking at proxy outcomes, but saying 'we have increased the number of doctors but they are doing fewer tonsillectomies, productivity is down!' is madness. The doctors might be offering much better healthcare that isn't as simple as chopping off your leg...

They genuinely don't believe that everyone should get healthcare??

I just find that so utterly incomprehensible I don't even know where to start.

It actually translates into some people deserve pain, so people deserve to die, some people deserve to be blind, some people deserve to have limbs amputated.

It is completely abhorrent that a supposedly forward thinking population can think that way.

Jesus wept.

Well, the right wing press and media in this country are pushing us ever closer to this by constantly working everyone up in a frenzy about the couple who live in a six bedroom house and claim benefits. Fuck everyone else who lives in an overcrowded council house and can barely afford the value range at Tesco's once they've paid the bills.

We'll soon be exactly like the Americans, and we are all sleep walking into it.

I watched it on demand and was horrified. How do all these American Christians (as most politicians seem to profess to be) square "let the poor die" with their faith?

As an American who has been living in the UK for the last 8 yrs, I remember all this from the states. I have worked short term at an A&E (ER) in the states as well as long term for the police. The things I saw were horrible. It really was common to see people wait to get their children (or themselves) treated until the situation was an emergency, as they simply could not afford treatment and medication.

My sister is one of those horrific people that was shocked by the idea of everyone having equal access to healthcare. In her opinion, if they want it, they should get off their ass, get a job with insurance benefits and that's that.

So many are trapped in jobs because they cannot afford coverage once they leave the job and if they don't have the interim coverage until they get a new job, any medical condition is considered a pre-existing condition and many insurances won't cover it or any expense related to it for up to a year!

This (COBRA) is an example of the common insurance available to people who have left or lost their job. To give an example, just to insure my 15yo daughter who had serious asthma, it was literally $500+ per month and that's JUST for the coverage.

Anyway - this is what some are forced to use.....

"COBRA - also known as the "Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985" - may give you the right to continue health coverage under certain conditions. This act applies to dislocated workers and families, even those facing reduced work hours, causing them to lose eligibility for health insurance.

Wondering if you might qualify?

To be eligible for COBRA:

you must have been enrolled in your employer's health plan when you worked and
the health plan must continue to be in effect for active employees
But watch that clock! If eligible, you should receive a COBRA notice from your employer. Make sure to ask for the notice if you don't get one.

Be sure to read it carefully. In order to continue coverage, you must sign up for COBRA within a certain time - typically within 60 days from your eligibility date.

Prepare for a little sticker shock. While most employers must extend your health benefits for 18 months under COBRA, the cost can be considerable.

In fact, the typical cost is 102 percent of the premium. This includes the actual cost to your employer, not just the amount you have taken from your pay. Paying double or more is not unheard of to keep the same coverage."

So what happens to people who are born with disabilities or who develop chronic conditions in childhood then? Do they get nothing?

Do employers turn away applicants who declar that they have a chronic condition because their premiums will be higher?

It's no wonder that the compensation culture is so huge in America if this is they way they treat people.

You pretty much hope to hell you've got decent insurance before you have a child. Some insurances have a "lifetime" limit of what they will pay out, and for someone that has a massively premature baby with lots of problems, it could easily be reached.

actually, make that "before you get pregnant". A lot of insurance policies will treat pregnancy as a pre-existing condition, if you were pregnant before the policy kicked in.

lollystix - The average UK salary in 1978 was £5440, so £8,000 as well above the average. So the price of your parents flat was 6x the average wage then. However house prices have soared.

Also remember that they do student loans differently there. You can get the loan, but you MUST start repaying it 6 months after you complete school... REGARDLESS of whether or not you are employed and regardless of your wage. You can get a forbearance on it, but it's not easy.

So a fair few people took out student loans, but now either can't get a job or are basically "the working poor" (they make just enough to not qualify for benefits, but not enough to survive on their wages). People at this level generally have either no medical insurance linked to their jobs or they have truly shitty medical insurance that hardly covers anything and has a huge deductible that they have to go through before the insurance starts to pay anything.