to think that most people are unsympathetic about addiction?

[Ilovedaintynuts]

Within minutes of her death being made public my facebook was full of tributes to Whitney Houston but also people saying they have no sympathy as she only has herself to blame..blah blah.

I find addiction and what it does to individuals, families and society tragic.

My occupation is Oncology and I still find extreme addiction as tragic as dying from cancer.

Whethers it's drugs, alcohol, smoking, spending, gambling it's an illness, isn't it?

Why do people think that these addicts should just stop and that it's their fault they are making themselves ill?

Depression and other mh problems can also turn you into a selfish person - I can't tell you the number of times I've given up on everyone and hidden away in my room while my family despair.

I don't feel like people think I'm a disgusting scumbag though, the way people talk about addicts.

A lazy fuckwit, maybe, but not a scumbag.

Although I do still judge them for their behaviour, I should say. Because of my familiarity with it, I don't have a lot of tolerance for a lot of addict behaviour. But I do still feel sorry for those who might want to change but have no support.

i think i could have more sympathy for an alcoholic or a gambler you see people around you completely unaffected by those things and you might just be the one who cant cope with them
but someone who makes a conscious decision to pick up a needle and inject heroin, i mean who have you seen that can use heroin and not get addicted and lead a relatively normal life, if you think you'll be the only person on the planet who doesnt get addicted more fool you and i cant really sympathise

I agree with the poster who said its very difficult to know where to draw the line though, between illness and personal responsibility.

At the end of the day, there is an element of choice. Someone may be predisposed towards an addictive character trait, or they may find it harder to keep weight off (thus making themself more vulnerable to certain diseases ).

I do think ignorance is less of an excuse these days too. Information is far more accessible to people now- we know that things like smoking and alcohol are addictive and harmful. It's widely known that if you have a predisposition towards depression or mental health problems then things like cannabis will exacerbate them.

At the end of the day, you could take someone with the same background and personality traits as Whitney Houston and they wouldn't necessarily end up making the same decisions- evidence that free will plays a part

I agree that addiction is awful and I am not imagining there are quick fix solutions but I can also understand why people may feel differently towards someone who is eg knocked down by a drunk driver or struck down by a cancer which their life style hasn't contributed towards

People who are completely unsympathetic about addiction are very often trying to apply their own sober, logical and fully rational frame of reference to the situation, thereby conveniently and blithely sailing by the actual point, which is that people in the depths of addiction very often don't have the same sober, logical and rational frame of reference (not saying all, but in many cases). The 'why don't they just stop' or 'they choose to do it' argument falls down right there.

D

But callmemrs, if you have depression, it's very hard to live with day to day, the doctors are often useless. If someone finds that cannabis eases the symptoms, isn't it understandable why they take it?

I think to compare addiction with cancer is crass and insensitive.

Ultimately, while the end result is often tragic the reality is that addiction is born out of personal choice. People choose to start smoking/drink alcohol/partake in illegal drugs. Cancer is not something people choose, or even have the ability to choose not to have - even substance related cancers such as lung and liver cancer can still occur regardless of your lifestyle. Although I do think that where illnesses do come down to lifestyle choice we need to take some personal responsibility as well.

It just seems all too easy to blame someone else. The partner/childhood/upbringing/the industry they work in and so the list goes on. But we apparently must never blame the individual because they were ill. No matter that they were the ones that made the choices that got them there in the first place.

Look at it another way:

If someone goes to the pub, has too much to drink and gets in their car while over the limit, they drive home and on the way there have an accident and are killed, should they be absolved of all responsibility for their death because they're dead and that's very sad? Or do you take into account that they got into a car while intoxicated and that their death was therefore their own responsibility/fault? I think it is possible to sympathise with te loss while at the same time acknowledgin that the loss was something which happened because of lack of personal responsibility...

I also think that there's a difference between having no sympathy for someone's death, and being unsurprised at someone's death. How many musicians/actors have died over the years who had known addiction problems? In fact, and as I said on the other thread, when Stephen Gateley died, it was almost surprising to read that drugs weren't involved.

"I can also understand why people may feel differently towards
someone who is eg knocked down by a drunk driver or struck down by a cancer which their life style hasn't contributed towards". And yet, could it not be argued that we should feel sympathy for that drunk driver because perhaps his addiction caused him to do it? and addiction is an illness after all ... yet once that drunk driver kills someone he is villified. Only if he kills himself does he gain sympathy.

You see, it's just not black and white. Why should we sympathise with the drunk driver if he kills himself, but not if he kills someone else? If he isn't responsible for his addiction and the state he is in, then surely he isn't responsible regardless of who ends up dead at the end of it? and yet no-one would argue that. Or would they?

I'm sorry to say that I have no tolerance whatsoever for addictive behaviour. I only have sympathy for those that are affected by the addiction of others. So no, I don't have much sympathy for WH - especially as others have pointed out she had numerous opportunities (i.e. access to the best rehab money can buy) to sort herself out and she didn't.

The majority of people know that if you choose to take an addictive drug, there is a chance that you might become addicted. So it shouldn't be too much of a surprise if you do. If that's too simplistic a view (I don't know particularly much about the science of addiction).

If all this makes me a bad person then but at least I haven't ruined anyone else's life through my own lack of self-discipline/stupidity.

Btw, I am the child of and the partner of people with addiction problems. I've stood by my partner and helped them sort their life out for the better, despite them nearly killing me (no exaggeration, not being over dramatic) through their actions whilst under the influence.

Yellowraincoat- No one suggested it is easy to live with depression. I was just pointing out that there is an element of free will and personal responsibility - I don't see how anyone can deny that. Not everyone with depression, or other mental illness, or who has an addictive parent will make the same decisions. I think that's the reason why people tend to have less sympathy for cases where there is an element of self infliction. I think it's the same with eg cancers where people have smoked or had a terrible diet. There tends to be less sympathy than in cases where an illness strikes over which the person has no control. That's not the same as saying people are heartless or don't feel any sympathy, just that they are aware that to some extent the person has contributed to their destiny

I'm sorry am I misreading or do some people on this thread think that depression is a choice people make?

There is an element of free will, until the addiction is established, Then free will goes out of the window.

People choose to pick up needles as they do cigarettes food and bottles of alcohol.

Illness is dependence no matter how you look at it, It's not about some addicts being less worthy than others.
They are all human beings, stop being so judgemental.

Deliaskis is right.

Addicts are irresponsible people who choose to stick their heads in the sand, rather than to face up to the harsh realities of life.

While it might be ok to chose to stick your head in the sand if you have no dependants, it is usually selfish as you are usually forcing someone else to take on your share of normal life responsibility. On some level and at some time in the addiction process the addict is making a choice, 'I don't want to deal with this, and I don't care what effect my choices have on other people'. It is inherently selfish to be an addict, whether that's smoking at home and around your family, drinking, taking drugs or choosing to become so obese that it is no longer a personal problem, but a family problem.

The addict's personal crisis or mood is always the dominant issue. Yes it is selfish and egotistical to be an addict. I strongly believe there are far too many enablers. By all means be sensitive to people, but perhaps it is also sensible to expect adults to behave responsibly. We can all make allowances for slip ups, while simultaneously expect slip-sps to be occassional and to expect people in general to be personably responsible.

I don't think it is healthy to allow addicts to divest themselves of all responsibility. I also don't believe addiction is an illness, it is a choice.

I read that too trickle, some people are just so stupid.

The addict's personal crisis or mood is always the dominant issue. Yes it is selfish and egotistical to be an addict. I strongly believe there are far too many enablers. By all means be sensitive to people, but perhaps it is also sensible to expect adults to behave responsibly. We can all make allowances for slip ups, while simultaneously expect slip-sps to be occassional and to expect people in general to be personably responsible.

Where do I start with explaining with what's wrong with this?

I don't for one minute believe that depression is a choice that people make.

But, like it or not, there are people that choose to handle it badly. They may well have understandable reasons for that and I am not condemning that, but people do have an element of choice when it comes to illnesses they suffer.

There are people that have depression and choose to stop taking medication or going to counselling, and then there are others who learn to recognise the signs and make sure they do everything they can to stay well.

There are people who have MS, and choose to do no exercise or anything that would benefit them, then there are others who do physio exercises and stretches every day to try and prevent or postpone problems.

There are people who have addictions and refuse help when it's offered, then there are others that take the opportunity they are given to get off it and then work hard on a daily basis to stop themselves going back on whatever they were addicted too.

All illness is horrible for people who suffer, it's not something that anyone deserves, but to say 'it's an illness and it can't be helped' is just absolving people of personal responsibility. Worse than that it is taking away the control that people with illnesses have.

Most people here will have tried alcohol. It's legal, and totally normal to try it. What makes you get addicted? That's not a choice, anymore than MH issues are a choice. I'll bet there are also plenty on here who've tried drugs. Why aren't they addicted?

I got really pissed off yesterday with the sanctimonious "just say no" bullcrap on FB. Like life is black and white.

access to the best rehab money can buy

Doesn't matter if your mental state is such that you don't want help; won't even acknowledge you have a problem.

Constance Tbh you sound like a horrible person, Starting a sentence with "I'm sorry to say" followed by a load of narrow minded bs because you are "Alright Jack" and haven't ever felt so desperate and low as other people.

I'm all for free speech but If people don't have any empathy or experience with this and they make comments like yours it just makes you look like an arsehole not very nice individual.

I difference is that addicts often shit all over people in their lives
cancer/heart attack people dont, as a general rule!

sad but true

What makes you get addicted?

Repeatedly taking the drug again and again and again. Being self indulgent and going for the hit of alcohol or other drug again and again, despite having other life commitments. Making that choice that I like this artificial high, I know it comes with a downside but never-the-less I'll prioritise it above anything and everything else, because I like it. Idon't care how it effects other people becuase my desires come first.

Prioritising the good time above everything else, and as a result having to nurse the come down above everything else. It's a very self-indulgent spiral.

MOLLY Why do you think some people are wired this way? That for some people, that high is more important than anything else? Why can I go for a drink, enjoy it, but not feel the need to do it constantly for the thrill of the high?

viva I feel very naive and a bit

kitchenroll there are all sorts of real reasons behind all the things your brought up specific to each individual - if you have a health professional determined to treat you as just another piece of meat on a conveyer belt then things do often go wrong with treatment

molly Why is there such a thing as addictive personality disorder?

Molly

What about? It got me through the day, finally I can cope at last, this'll keep me functioning I can manage at last. Oh crap I don't have any I can't manage without, I can't cope, I don't know how to feel like this I must get some more I need it to get back to my life and start managing again.