that every parent of a secondary school child should sit in on a lesson

[thekidsrule]

hi,my son has been disrupting a class he attends at secondary school (boys)

im feed up to the back teeth of his attitude regarding his behaviour

im also getting phone calls about this by the teacher,anyway as a last resort i asked the teacher if i could sit in on this lesson,maybe embarrass him,realise i mean buisness,sure you get the drift

anyway teacher was more than happy so i sat in OMG what a shambles

1/4 of the class would not sit down for the first 10mins of lesson
continuous calling out,throwing pens,offensive language,basically a shambles

one boy was sent out for good but there was still a huge amount of dissruption,my son was better behaved but im under no illussion he acts the same when im not there

there was a reward system going,lots of incentives but nothing made any difference

there was some students that wanted to learn,but how can they learn with so much going on

ages 13yrs

i liked the teacher and really felt for her,what a hard job

AIBU t think that alot of parents dont really realise what is going on in the classroom and maybe every parent attended one lesson it would open there eyes,it has mine

Lifechanger and enjoiraslove Thank-you for confirming what has only been an idea running through my head for the last few years. I'm going to do some research on this Wetz bloke and on other models that you've mentioned.

Maybe then we could do a little lobbying with Mr Gove? Because seriously, my time spent in state comps and the lack of grammars is making me consider HE for my two when the time comes.

Sorry, that should have been enjolraslove. Bloody phone means I can't always tell the difference between i and l.

I haven't read all of this but we had to move our dd from what used to be an excellent state school because of very very poor behaviour and continual disruption in the classroom. The teachers did their very best but they were unable to take suffiient action. The children who were on the brink of criminality would have been expelled from my state grammar school 35/40 years previously and would have been sent first to the worst local sec mod and then if they didn't improve there to a special school. There are no consequences or boundaries any more and all we heard from the head was "it's a London comprehensive and the intake is diverse". What of the parents whose children lived in difficult circs and did behave - not much respect there for them?

When the teaching profession bleats for resources for the unteachable I will support their bleats for improved terms and conditions.

Oh and the biggest tragedy was that we moved dd because we could afford to - she left behind scores of children who have to continue to suffer. It is a disgrace and those in charge of it are an even bigger disgrace. and more

If it was my children I would want to know ASAP, and if things didn't improve I would do what the op did in a heart beat

While I agree problems are likely to be exaxerbated by poor parenting, large classes and uncertainty over rights to enforce discipline, there havealways been teachers who have been unable to control their class. Remember Goodbye Mr Chips, that sentimental oldie-worldie story about a prep school with Good Values? It has the boys pouring ink down a teacher's collar and the only comment of his headteacher is "silly fool, got hysterical". Remember the Laura Ingalls books?

As ma4pie says, in our generation children also tried it on. We were generally very well behaved in the schools I attended- because they were genuinely nice schools and most of us had been well parented- but there was one teacher in secondary under whose classes everything slipped completely. He never even tried to make us do any work, he let the pupils choose what they wanted to do- and the result was that they despised him as incapable. The kind of behaviour that took place in his class never happened anywhere else and I would say it was totally out of character for most of the pupils who joined in.

My dad reports very similar experiences from his teacher training days in the 50s- pupils generally well behaved after they had tested you.

I am a parent and have worked as a supply teacher in some fairly rough school and the way I always felt was that discipline works in two stages: it is a longterm thing-about underlying values- and a short-term one about keeping them under control in the actual situation they are in. Even children who have been given very good values can slip temporarily out of control when an adult who does not have good natural authority is in charge, but an adult who does have authority can keep even quite difficult children in hand.

I agree, there are some people who just cannot teach.

And there are classes that are unteachable. I'm watching one class in particular progressing up the school and praying that I don't get them next year. They've reduced more than one experienced teacher to tears. As we set in maths we often get a different grouping of students to other teachers, and kids who might not be a problem when in mixed abilty form classes where they are watered down end up being unmanageable when put in set Z with 20 other similarly demanding students. And in those situations other teachers saying 'he's not a problem for me' insinuating a problem with you is very frustrating as they are having a different experience.

@Molly Broom - & on the whole, their lives are miserable & they go off to do something less demanding sooner rather than later. There are few jobs in which being crap is more exposed...

I'd like us to be a little more rigorous with PGCE students. It's quite often apparent that some poor bugger is useless, but it's hard to fail them.

I applaud the OP for coming in to school. I have a manageable, but feckless, middle ability GCSE group & would welcome parents to witness the low-level pratting about that is limiting their dc's post-16 options.

some really good opinions about this,

im so glad i sat in on the lesson,does anybody know if single sex schools are more disruptive or not compared to mixed (maybe daft ???? )

i know ive read before that the education system is more for girls now say than 30yrs ago and boys have generally been left behind,is this true ??

I teach mixed but in a boy-heavy school as there is a good girls' school nearby. I'd much rather teach a girl-heavy class than a boy-heavy one. Girls can be bitchy and hold grudges and whine about things being unfair because you hate me more than boys, but boys can be so bloody immature. Y11 girls never steal each others' bags and put them in the bin 'for a laugh', for example. I find that a lot of boys have problems with taking instructions from a woman, too, where they'd behave for a male teacher.

Girl disruption tends to be more about drama, boys tend to be about showing off.
I expect if the girls weren't there the boys might show off less, and if the boys weren't there there wouldn't be so much drama for the girls.

Interesting that gender is now being discussed. I've often thought that some of the playing up I've seen was for the benefit of the opposite sex.

I went to a single-sex school and I must admit, if I had the choice, I'd do the same for mine.

I agree about high schools being far too big, and that a smaller school where teachers know all the pupils is far better.
The comp where I went was very mixed, and the classes I was in the top set for were run with discipline and strict.
The "mixed ability" classes were a shambles, kids running around, no learning going on.
It is true though that some teachers can hold order, and some just shouldnt be there.

Good on you for going into school and sitting in on the lesson. I have taught in a state secondary for 6 years and one boy's mum did exactly the same when he was in year 7. She actually took a week off work and sat beside him for a week. At the end of the week she threatened to give up her job and go on benefits and do that every day if he didn't sort himself out. He was a model student for the rest of time he was in school.

I am a strict teacher but the weight of indiscipline is overwhelming at times and new teachers find it very difficult. Constant talking, out of seat, no pen, messing with phones........ A lot of parents support the school but many don't or are ineffective and can't control their children themselves. It is sad that many people feel it is the role of the teacher to 'control' the class. I'm a teacher not a dog handler.

One thing I don't understand-why do schools allow phones in the classroom at all?

YANBU

Brilliant idea but worrying that it was such mayhem

O/P hope you do set a trend, but you wouldn?t be allowed into our old school though, they try to say the kids are exaggerating, but you can?t stop kids taping what?s really going on and complaining about it.
Because I had to come into weekly SEN meetings I got to see 1st hand just how out of control so much was, and the stuff going out on you tube was hard to deny.

My youngest (asd) begged teachers to have me come into the classrooms (11 form entry school) so he stood a chance of learning and getting the batterings stopped. They said it would humiliate him and he said it couldn't be any worse than what was being done to him.

No way were they going to officially let any parent see what was going on. But just moving around the corridors seeing the frequent explosions out of classrooms in lessons, and the way teachers simply ignored what went on in front of them, during changeovers, no matter how serious it was, was illuminating.

One small thing that really struck me was the way all teachers and SLT let heavy doors swing in children?s faces all the time, and didn?t acknowledge or thank the few notable kids that held the door for them. It was a small thing next to the serious levels of violence, but it summed up the mutual lack of respect and despair.

My son getting in trouble for saying he didn't think a teacher boasting in class about her ASBO was on, said a lot as well. In fairness everyone could see the teacher was suffering m/h problems but I stand behind my lad that it's nothing to be boasting to students about and he's entitled to have that standard and voice that opinion, and his mum thinks the same. That made us the problem not her behaviour.

Teachers, kids and parents are all being betrayed here. It?s a culture of low expectations, aim low so you don?t miss, and lies about nail tec btec?s and media studies being worth the same as 3 sciences and maths. Well they might be to the school, but not to the kids. We also got told further maths wasn?t needed by anyone unless you wanted to be a professor. (Thank you Mumsnet for teaching us different)

Parents here don?t believe they have the power to change anything and they?re encouraged to think that way.

Shagmundfreud
I often thought that if I was a parent and saw how little learning went on in some classes I'd have withdrawn my child that day. It was shocking and heartbreaking.

Yet when parents do see, can?t change it, can?t buy our way out either through independent schools or by owning our homes, and opt for home ed rather than no/low ed, we?re treated with huge suspicion, our motives questioned, claims our kids are missing out (bloody hilarious!) and our LEA tries to demonise those of us who want better for our kids and are prepared to give up everything to get it.

I'm currently doing a PGCE and some classes are delughtful, I'm in a fairly deprived school. What helps is that our lower sets are in classes of less than 10 so its sooo much easier to teach when you can sit them apart and pay proper attention to them.

The main problem I have is not knowing the names of so maby of the students, this makes t very difficult to discipline outside of the classroom as I have to rely in other students dobbing their peers in. Some do but I certainly wouldn't have when I was at school.

NorthernWreck Phones either aren't allowed or must be switched off generally.

However, you try taking phones off 10 or so kids that decide they are 'entitled' and you, as the teacher, 'aren't allowed to take my stuff'.

Re phones, I've had kids in my lesson receiving calls/texts from their mum. Imagine the parental support that comes from trying to confiscate their phones.

Of course phones aren't allowed but that doesn't stop kids pissing about with them. Having a rule doesn't mean that it's not broken occasionally.

I don't know whether things ahve got worse or not tbh.

When I was at school a million years ago, the behaviour of some pupils was appalling. Classrooms were not places to learn anythig much. The teachers were allowed to batter us all balck and blue...

That said, until recently I volunteered at my local primary school and was astounded at the constant low level disruption that was part and parcel of the school day right from reception.
It was endless. Pupils wandering around, interupting, chatting, arguing...it was bloody impossible for the teachers.

And every single class seemed to be dominated by a few pupils whose bahaviour was particularly challenging. Either the teacher spend the entire time trying to discipline or engage them, or gave up and the classroom descended into chaos.

What I did notice, though, was that on the odd occasion when these pupils did anyhting they were showered with praise. And whilst I can see that incentive must work better than threats, I did think that certain basic behaviours ought to be simply expected and that no reward need be offered for them.

RavenAK You are right. I did a PGCE and nobody failed. Not because everybody was an outstanding, good or even satisfactory teacher.

But because the university prided itself on his 100% success rate and often gave people "the benefit of the doubt" when really they shouldn't.

The same goes with NQT years. If a school fails an NQT student then the LA want to know chapter and verse on what they did to support them, how the school supported the NQT and what they could have done better. i.e. it reflects badly on the school not just the NQT.

That's why many schools will only recruit NQTs on short term contracts so that they can just not renew it at the end of the NQT year, rather than having to 'fail' the teacher who can appeal/complain to the union claiming that they weren't adequately and appropriately supported.

sorry NQTeacher, not student! dur!