that every parent of a secondary school child should sit in on a lesson

[thekidsrule]

hi,my son has been disrupting a class he attends at secondary school (boys)

im feed up to the back teeth of his attitude regarding his behaviour

im also getting phone calls about this by the teacher,anyway as a last resort i asked the teacher if i could sit in on this lesson,maybe embarrass him,realise i mean buisness,sure you get the drift

anyway teacher was more than happy so i sat in OMG what a shambles

1/4 of the class would not sit down for the first 10mins of lesson
continuous calling out,throwing pens,offensive language,basically a shambles

one boy was sent out for good but there was still a huge amount of dissruption,my son was better behaved but im under no illussion he acts the same when im not there

there was a reward system going,lots of incentives but nothing made any difference

there was some students that wanted to learn,but how can they learn with so much going on

ages 13yrs

i liked the teacher and really felt for her,what a hard job

AIBU t think that alot of parents dont really realise what is going on in the classroom and maybe every parent attended one lesson it would open there eyes,it has mine

Want to add - this school was in a borough which has a very high percentage of selective schools. Most of the motivated and bright children, and those from middle-class families are creamed off into these schools, leaving the 'comprehensives' (not comprehensive actually - secondary modern) to mop up all the most difficult and least academic kids.

I blame our system for creating schools which are socially polarised. Schools reflect the values of the communities they serve, and sadly this means some schools will be full of children who don't understand the value of education.

"Parents who care and have the money send their children to private schools."

Don't be absolutely ridiculous PomBear, that's the silliest generalisation I've read on MN for a long time

shagmund I would be thinking that the grammars have wonderful children - Im in Bexley and my Middle is in a grammar - Jesus - the stories he comes home with are far worse than what I see/deal with daily.

In fact I got very mardy with his chem tutor on PPC and bluntly said "your lack of class room control is shocking, I woudn't allow that and infact it wouldnt be tolerated where I work" (sec modern).

I have to point out Im not a teacher, Im not a TA, Im the data analyst but one of my roles is tutoring literacy and numeracy for Y10 and Y11 plus I also do the online reading/comprehension tests for Y7/8/9. I have absolutely zero class room training. But Im scary!

Back to the chem tutor - the coment was "I love DS2! he's wonderful! when the class are rioting he's the first to sit down". I did my cobblers.

Ps at this point I need to be at pains to comment Im not a trained typist either!!!

My children are at, or will attend comprehensive school, they are smart, articulate and polite. If they make you shudder leQueen I feel sorry for you.

I teach in a comprehensive, most of the students there are absolutely delightful company. I am quite capable of getting students to sit at desks and listen.

Rubbish. There are teachers in classrooms in countries all over the world who don't give a f**k about engaging children or making their subject 'interesting' or winning kids over or finding some kind of magic formula for controlling a classroom. They can get on and teach huge classes with virtually no resources because parents there don't think that their job ends at the school gate.

The teacher is supposed to be teaching, not doing social work, not making up for family dysfunction, not showing a child it isn't acceptable to use foul language. I know I can trust my chldren not to swear in class, not to throw things, not to call out. And if they let me (and themselves) down, as children sometimes do, I don't feel it is the responsibility of any other adult to sort that work out for me, whether it be teacher, dentist, police officer, doctor, nurse, supermarket checkout operator or tour guide. I certainly wouldn't assume it was anyone else's 'fault' that my child was badly behaved.

my experience reminded me of snippets of the tv programme "educating essex"

seriously the town i live in isnt deprived,yes theres pockets of poverty,but this is no stereo typical inner city comp

My children are not angels, they are just bog standard children going to bog standard comps.

There are students who think nothing of swearing at you, in fact one swore at me last week - he is now on an exclusion. ( I will admit no one has ever spat at me. But they are not the majority at a comprehensive and therefore unless you were in an extreme situation there was no need to shudder.

Want to add, I've stood by my belief in non-selective education and sent dd to the nearest comprehensive. It's an excellent school - outstanding ofsted, in the top 1% for 'value added' in the UK. It has a very high percentage of disadvantaged kids - 3 times the number on free school meals as the national average.

DD's behaviour, which was pretty much PERFECT in primary, has deteriorated so much since starting at this school. In the past 6 weeks I've had three teachers phone me to complain. Rudeness, answering back, late for lessons, getting out of her seat, not doing any work..... Oh god it's mortifying. I've apologised at length, grounded dd, taken her phone away, you name it. Point being it's not always about what's going on at home. Peer influence is very influential at secondary, and sadly my dd is being influenced by the rough kids she mixes with at school.

thats a bit harsh,influenced by rough kids,how do you know this is the case

I did not say I had taught at the three comprehensive you had taught at. I said that if you were working in comprehensives that made you shudder they must have been quite extreme. Or you shudder quite easily.

I suppose that is the danger of a comprehensive, all those rough kids.

I taught for 23 years in challenging schools. I had no difficulties with classroom management until the last school I taught in.

That was a school where there was no back up from SMT or the HT if behaviour was poor. The pupils could do exactly as they pleased. They knew it and frequently said so. If you reported poor behaviour and attempted to follow the (supposed) behaviour policy you were told it was your fault for being insufficiently engaging.

Three teachers in one year with over 60 years experience left having had complete psychological breakdowns.

After I left my class were taught by an experienced supply teacher who'd taught for years in behavioural units. She left after a few days when the pupils locked her in the stock cupboard and stole her handbag, and no punishment was meted out.

Without a strong HT no teacher can expect to have credibility in the classroom.

I agree ilovesooty.

I have taught in a number of comprehensives in an area with grammar schools and a relatively high number of independents. That has not been my experience. I am not saying it is not yours but it need not be the norm.

Good lord. I teach in a "rough" school. Most of the students are well enough behaved that I never have to contact home other than to say nice things. You should not assume that it is inevitable that all students are influenced by the "rough" children, and perhaps you should try to think why your daughter allows herself to be influenced while others aren't.

That's often how it was when I was in secondary, OP. 1980. I went to supposedly good schools, too. Why I never in a million years wanted to be a teacher. I would find it weird if things weren't like you describe (fascinated by rose-tinted spectacles of others or baffled why/how did they not have experience OP describes, if they truly genuinely didn't).

ragged,probably because they dont see what go on,agree with you

intresting how many proffessionals (Teacher,Ta etc)agree that it is pretty common,i would believe them more as they are on the "coal face) and see far more than what the parent does

That HT sounds like mine, Le Queen

I remember when a pupil threw stones at a car during a school sponsored walk. Two deputies told him to stop and return to school. He attacked them both and broke one deputy's glasses so they told him to return with his mother the next morning.

The next morning my class were discussing it. One girl said: "M will be back by break. If he's excluded his Mum will threaten to go to the papers and the head will back down"

It happened just as she said. And the deputy whose glasses were broken was told if he contacted the police and pressed charges he wouldn't get a reference to teach anywhere else.

In some schools pupils rule because the Head lets them.

That is a school out of control and therefore I would class it as extreme. If that was what most teachers had to put up with all the time we would have a teacher shortage. We have more teachers than jobs.