to be in tears at Protecting Our Children Tonight?

[Bingdweller]

Just so heartbreaking. So many hopes, so many chances given and the mum just couldn't do it. The social worker (Annie) was amazing and just so devastated by the case. In tears as I write and will think of this and families like these for a long time to come. Am so grateful for my own stable upbringing, happy marriage and two beautiful DC.

I am currently being assessed for adoption and this really gives an insight into what some of the children may have been subjuected to at such a young age. So may different people in their lives, changes in circumstances. it is heartbreaking!

You get told about what children have been through but if you see it first hand it really hits home!

Ideally everyone would have a supportive family, they don't, but the CP system tries to ensure that any baby's born into these situations will have stability.

They couldn't really ahve got more support, they have their own social worker, mental health workers, the baby had a sw...what more do you want them to do?
There would have been a lot more going on the background, rather daft to make such assumptions based on a one hour heavily edited programme.

I was in tears at the end. I wonder how many other agencies were involved. It was touching when dad sang twinkle twinkle to the baby. Last weeks' dad didnt know how to engage with his child, it seemed

I wonder if marva is pregnant again? She was only young. The baby was gorgeous. I know nothing about overdosing and being pregnant so fantastic that the baby survived the drink/pills.

Such a harrowing programme. I was really shocked by the end, her going back to shaun and drink etc. Terrible.

I shed a tear at the end because I really though she was going to be strong enough to be on her own. I do think they gave her as much help as they could to be a good mother but obviously her addictions were too strong.

I think its very sad that they probably wont live to see old age.

Okay I am watching it now and even ten minutes in I've seen enough to be utterly horrified for all concerned.

I would still like to see something of how SS do successfully help without removing children but don't suppose it would make entertaining viewing

I was crying when the took her baby. It's probably for the best but I did hope Marva would cope.

I'm glad I'm not the only person who thinks the adults should have been given more support. The SW continually told them to 'stop drinking' and 'be strong' but it should have been 'I've booked you onto a program' and 'I'll take you to see the CBT counsellor' or 'have you tried Mumsnet for advice?'.

I disagree. I thought last night's social workers were excellent (much better than last week's) and couldn't have helped more, and it was made clear that Marva and Shaun refused to engage with other services offered to vulnerable adults. It is desperately sad, but they have the right as adults to make that choice, although I would question if Marva really has the mental capacity to understand any choices she makes. Even Shaun appears to be functioning better than she does.

There is no way they could have taken care of a baby when they did not have the first clue of caring for themselves. I am glad that Marva was given the chance to care for her baby with the help and support of the marvellous Elaine, but can anyone honestly say that they could have seen Marva making a go of things by herself, or in conjunction with Shaun? To my mind anyway, the baby was at risk without the constant presence of Elaine, so it was much more clear cut than last week's situation to remove him. I am so glad that the baby appears healthy and alert, despite the repeated drinking and at least two overdoses his mother took whilst pregnant, although I know symptoms of some syndromes, such as FAS don't manifest themselves straight away.

I have to wonder if Marva and Shaun had been taken away away from their own families if it would have been enough to save them from the chaotic, damaging lives they are living, but I suppose we can never know.

At The CP meeting it was quite obvious that Marva had more people supporting her than just the Social Worker.

@catsdontcare

Good post, but there IS something else they could have done..

I have bipolar and am a drug addict in recovery. When my unborn child was 6 months social services arranged for me to be admitted to a mother and baby psych ward for 2 months following the birth. This gave me tons of support on parenting from the nursery nurses present and lots of psych help from the psych nurses there. The result.. I did not relapse and managed to keep my baby. In fact the hospital and social services concluded I parented to a high standard.

Marva should have been placed in a m and b unit DURING the pregnancy as she was ODing. There was a girl in the unit very similar to Marva who was kept safe and also managed to keep her baby.

There is a chance if she had got in such a unit the outcome would have been better.

mrsrosieb - I was wondering about that option too. Marva seemed so vunerable and childlike, I just couldn't imagine her being strong enough to care for the baby and take responsibility on her her own, even with the lovely foster carer.

Very sad situation, but I didn't cry. Just relieved that the safety net was there to catch the baby when she went awol.

But as someone has already said this programme is just a snapshot of this pregnancy. Who knows what they have previously tried with her other pregnancies.
You can only help people who want to help themselves...

Mrsrosie, this was her FOURTH baby to be removed, wasn't it? So perhaps she had been in a m&b unit before, or several times before, or perhaps refused to be.
I really don't see how anyone thinks themselves qualified to judge what should have been done based on watching the programme.

One thing I noticed was the dad saying to Annie (the SW)
"I don't like you, I've never liked you, you're slimey"

WTAF . You can only imagine what she was thinking, unable to say out loud.
And last week, the dad wanted to change his SW, they didn't get on with her. Last weeks was on her first case, Annie was 20+ years experience IIRC.

I thought she was patient to the extreme, empathy to the couple especially Maura. But I'm sure ,deep down she knew that baby was going to be removed.

And the baby born at 5lb 1oz (fourth baby, third pregnancy) the dad saying, "Oh yes Mauras small build"

So they smoking/drinking/ no doubt questionable diet/lack of antenatal appointments being attended/ overdoses had bugger all to do with it??
I was a size 10 pre baby, both mine were over 8lb 8oz.

I watched both programmes this afternoon on iPlayer. I thought SS were excellent; tireless in a way I could just never be.

But there seemed to be a lack of consistency in the care offered, I thought. Marva was offered a foster placement with her child when she left the destructive father. Why wasn't Tiffany from last week offered the same? Because had she not been in hospital, her son wouldn't have been removed when he was.

Tiffany had been on a Child Protection plan for neary three years and had shown that she was in capable of parenting.

Toby was removed because he was in immediate danger being left with Mike(Emergancy Protection Order). Tiffany didn't choose to leave Mike until Toby was already in foster care. Tby was already in the Looked After System (LAC) and on a LAC plan, which has to follow time limits. Had Tiffany allowed the time span to pass and the case goback to court these plan could have been made. Tiffany chose to cease contact and requested that the children be put forward for adoption.

It was a completely set of different circumstances. The issues with Tiffany, lack of educational stimulation, attachment, home conditions etc had been on going for three years. She had the chance to make things better. The assessments would have been done and they may have ran out of ways to try to get Tiffany to overcome these issues.

Marva needed support, her issues were drug/alcohol and her MH problems, so they gave her the chance to remove the drug/alcohol first in a supported living situation.

You never really know what is going on in someones life. Tiffany may have already moved on to a new relationship, which unfortunately is usually the case.

social workers are doing a tough job. I know that I could never be one.

Marva's story was upsetting. I know of someone like her who was pregnant with her 8th baby (all of the other in care) and she was given a lot of help and support throughout the pregnancy.

However, she drank and took drugs through most of the pregnancy and when the baby was only 3 months old, he too was taken away from her.

She didn't care, she just said that she would try again "next time"

Very sad for all concerned.

While the programs have been sad I'm really glad people get to see the realities of social work, the families involved, and how not all kids in the care system are there because of abuse. Some families just can't care for their children, even with support.

This weeks seemed so much worse and what a scary situation to have to go into each time. Surely if she kept trying to commit suicide shouldn't she have been sectioned or something?

That foster career was very brave to take that case on too, don't think I could bring that situation into my family home what if he'd found out where she was.

the best review about it.

www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=418986