to think that none of the Benefit Frothers..

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

will be man enough to read this article and admit they may have been wrong and misled..

www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/feb/05/benefit-cuts-fuelling-abuse-disabled-people

People are being encouraged by the government and the media to believe that disability benefits are easy to get. This is being done deliberately to ease in the new guidelines. Under these guidelines thousands of people previously on DLA for example, will now be classed as not disabled enough to affect their ability to work.

That's all well and good until you realise it includes, for example:

People in wheelchairs - as a wheelchair is supposed to solve their mobility issues. That may well be the case, but DLA was there to take into account the extra costs required in owning/maintaining a wheelchair, owning/hiring/using a vehicle that can cope with a passenger in a wheelchair, extra costs incurred in regular health appointments necessary to maintain health. And none of this takes into account the number of businesses recruiting who will either have premises suitable for a wheelchair or employers willing to offer jobs to anyone disabled because they believe they will need more time off/greater concessions for their disability.

People with learning difficulties - if they can answer a series of very simple questions, have good eyesight and have no mobility issues, they will be classed as unemployed in just the same as anyone else. There will be no special measures put in place to deal with the fact that they may not be able to cope with a change in routine or understand anything other than the most basic instructions. Some of these people certainly are capable of working and would benefit enormously from doing do, but it has to be the right kind of job and these are not readily available.

Excellent post.

I don't want to live in a society that considered the vulnerable to be a scrounging burden on the rest of us.

Under this government we have seen a marked increase in negative publicity (off the back of government policy towards the disabled, those on benefits generally and single mothers. Child poverty is on the increase and education being restricted. Who next?

This will be a great society to live in provided you are rich, healthy and neither young nor old. Fabulous!

Abuse aimed at people with disabilities is very real and really does need addressing.
Even on discussions such as these, I can feel like someone is taking a pop at me. Whenever someone says they are not against a 'genuine' person with disabilities but they KNOW someone who is not because they KNOW how they go about their lives, walking, working and even 'toileting' I feel the slap. I find myself imagining that any of these comments could indeed be aimed at me. If you live near me you could probably say oh yeah, I've seen her for years going about her life perfectly ok blah blah blah. I think of these people who KNOW when I crawl up the stairs on all fours, when I fall out of bed because it's the only way to get out, or at 4.30am when I get up to start the day with my 'toileting' - you really don't want to know the details! but trust me you will have no idea by the time I emerge in public.

There is a lady in my parents street suffering abuse; real abuse. The bloke next door became angry when he noted she had a new car and had a ramp fitted to her front door. he doesn't know what her disability is, he doesn't know if her car is from the motability scheme and he doesn't know who paid for the ramp. But that isn't important to him. He challenges her whenever he sees her and is actively spreading his hate to all the other neighbours. He keeps a diary of her activities especially the times in the early hours when he hears her moving about the house. (if she is disbled she shouldn't be able to move about the house in the early hours?) He has his camera set up now to film her should she dare to take a walk in her own garden.
Imagine what life is like for this lady, being judged by those around her. BUT... he KNOWS her and has seen her walk perfectly normal to her car......

I have been challenged when I park my car. It hurts! It's not just that I don't want a random stranger challenging me, I just don't want to be reminded of my disability all the time. I am not my disability.

Unfortunately, no matter how much the media decide to right their wrongs with regards to disabled benefits, there will always be twats around like your parents neighbour. Cutting benefits won't change that. Some people are born twats and will die twats.

surely the motobility scheme pays for itself though and it turn puts money back into the economy by the leasing of vehicles and keeping car manufacturing (wht's left in this country) and dealerships afloat and people in jobs ETC.

We do have a motobility car fwiw and we find it an invaluable scheme and it is paid for out of the DLA allowance for our daughter who is very severely disabled. I have to drive all over the place for appointments, even into London, her school is 15 miles away etc. we do unfortunately have the NEED for a reliable car in order to get anywhere to fulfill her basic welfare needs and to keep her healthy and safe. I don't think it's that difficult a concept to grasp...is it? :(

sixlostmonkeys, wouldn't the lady's situation be classed as an invasion of privacy?

It's not Agincourt, but I think a lot of people don't realise that you get the car instead of the money, and that you only get the choice of a car if you are on the higher rate of DLA.

Actually, I think that would be classed as harrassment. Maybe she could go to the police and just have a chat with them about it.

Often you have to pay a very big deposit too. Even for my pretty standard family sized car the downpayment was £3000 which has to come out of our own income. It's only really very small manual cars that are downpayment free, well this was the case 2 years ago. For a bmw or whatever else I think the downpayment was about 20k or something stupid so not very small at all - well not in MY world

I agree, there will always be twats around as Kitchenroll says (I've known this guy all my life and he has always been like that)
I do believe though that media is actually the place to help stop the hate and misconceptions. People believe what they read. Yes, some people are of the belief that there are only 2 things you can believe in a newspaper; the date and the price, but the majority of people believe the rest. "The bloke down the pub said it so it must be true"
All it takes is a newspaper mentioning 'free' cars and people get all hot and bothered. As agincourt says, the truth about the motability scheme is actually that it is a very small burden on pot and does provide the nation with a knock on effect of possitives and gains. If the papers could only explain the truth in simple terms then the haters would lose their ammunition.

actually bmw prices seem to have come down but there is only a selection of 5 cars and the downpayments are 2k-2.4k. I can't see the x3 but tbh i don't know much about cars, there is an x1 and 3 series?? and it appears you cannot get a totyota land cruiser on the scheme. It stops at a verso which is a downpayment of 2.5k.

Mercedez benz vito's, which if you had a wheelchair user you would need accessibility is 10k downpayment and that is without adaptations

This is all so depressing and I have so much sympathy for everyone affected

What makes me especially mad is that there are a few people I'm close to who are (in general) good, decent, caring and intelligent people and yet still end up repeating some of the "soundbite crap" coming from the politicians, DM etc without really questioning it or knowing any of the facts. Even DH was waffling on the other day about people "just getting jobs", yet when I challenged him he had no idea of the actual numbers of people looking for work vs positions available.

So I am going to use some of those links posted at the start of this thread and stick them under a few people's noses - thank you!

"Unfortunately, no matter how much the media decide to right their wrongs with regards to disabled benefits, there will always be twats around like your parents neighbour. Cutting benefits won't change that. "

That's immensely naive, Kitchenroll. Like saying some people will always be racist, so it's fine for the media to only publish stories about black people if they involve. Media representations create attitude, and hothouse or discourage what already exists. If they didn't, there'd be no advertising industry, no PR industry and no govt spin doctors. (NB Guardian headline is misleading - it's not the cuts that are causing the attacks, but the propaganda softening the public up for the cuts.)

Large-scale attacks on sections of the population rarely come from nowhere. There's a long build-up period during which they are demonised, de-personalised and bad associations carefully established in people's minds.

We're at the small-scale attacks and social hostility stage now. How far will we go down this road?

only a few days ago there was thread on mn, the op had decided that a workmate shouldn't be getting DLA.
she had no real knowledge, just judged.
that is what happens now, people with no knowledge make assumptions about anyone claiming DLA, really sick imo

Google is a wonderful tool, I have just found this article from 2007 - please not the change of tone for a start, and this was before the present government took over. Over 50% of people who can claim DLA are claiming it according to the article, and please read it properly If figures of poverty were that high before, i do wonder what they are like now

I think you may have misunderstood what I mean there. Or I didn't explain it clearly.

I'm not saying its ok to print misleading or incorrect information, I'm just saying that even if they stopped doing it, I don't think it would completely eradicate the problem of disablism. Especially when there are people so extreme in their views that they will spy on their neighbours and write down their every move.

I think changing media portrayal of things definitely goes a long way to help, but the media is already very careful about publishing things that could be taken as racist and there are still racist people around.

I don't like being described as naieve, although there is a chance that I am. I don't think that people who do have disablist views are anywhere near in the majority though, I'm not even sure they are a particularly significant minority. Disability in one form or another is so common now that many people are affected by it through their friends and family, and are generally understanding. Maybe I just spend time around nice people though.

have you not been on the sn bashing threads on here, seen all the oh this doesn't affect me, but i am jealous so will bash people.
it doesn't take much to realise the sn bashers on here will be the same in rl, so you can't just blame the media, who are just following the governments lead.

People believe what they read.

I agree, and the sort of person who believes what they read without question, isn't likely to look elsewhere for a counter argument or more balanced view.

Was the DM ever held accountable for the article regarding motability cars?

Oh i saw a link to this article. I simply do not have the courage to read it as i am likely to throw something.

I think something opinions are taken as SN bashing when they aren't.

I'm not saying it never happens, but I am saying its not as prevelant as some would believe.

I have been accused of benefit bashing just for stating an alternative opinion to the majority of people on a thread at any one time, and I think that's harsh. I don't benefit bash, but I do acknowledge that some benefits are too generous IMO. I want to make it clear I'm not talking about disability benefits there though.

I think people can be accused of SN bashing when they are not, or when they are saying things that do not warrant being called something as extreme as that. Being called disablist, or an SN basher, or a racist are harsh and extreme words to use, and they shouldn't be used lightly IMO.

Gah. Typo.

about black people if they involve crime

One of the problems with this debate is that the government/media have created a situation where it is impossible to separate disability benefits from any other - regardless of which side of the debate you're on.

While I see where you're coming from Kitchenroll you simply cannot use the argument that you think benefits need cutting but not disabled ones. Because the cuts are not set up in a way that allow you to be critical of one element but not the other. The point is not that they're reducing the amount of disability benefits but they're changing the qualifying criteria for them. Result: lots of disabled people now on unemployment benefits, which you DO feel can be justifiably cut.

was there another article on motobility cars then?

agree sevenfold. It's the insidious drip drip drip of so many people suddenly becoming a medical expert and reckoning their SIL/colleague/neighbour is getting DLA baselessly.